[Official] FRINGE - S5 -Discussion Thread

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Re: [Official] FRINGE - S5 -Discussion Thread

Postby supermodel on Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:00 am

Very good episode. It was nice to see some action, things have been a bit slow lately.

So looking back over these few episodes, Etta wasn't a pivotal character in her own right. That is, she was pivotal in the way her existence and her death related to Peter/Olivia's journey. She basically a plot device, the purpose of introducing her was so that she could die and maybe this is the catalyst Peter and Olivia need to do whatever it takes to destroy the Observers.

I'm not complaining or discounting her. While I found Etta rather blah, the scenes with her parents were moving and elicited some great performances. But I won't miss her, she has set our main characters on a path and I can't wait to see what they do next. Especially Peter, he looked like he was seething inside, I hope he can contain his anger and channel it into the plan.

So who do you think is The Dove? I think certain scenes implied it's Broyles, which makes me think it's totally not Broyles. My money is on Nina. Actually I would guess William Bell except for the fact that he has been frozen in amber for 21 years and as far as we know is still in amber, minus a hand.
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Re: [Official] FRINGE - S5 -Discussion Thread

Postby supermodel on Wed Oct 31, 2012 4:49 am

One thing that is bothering me a lot is the way the Observers seem so clueless. How were they so easily fooled by re-ambering the lab? Actually, what really bothers me is the fact that the lab was not under guard in the first place. If they know that Walter & Co. have returned, why was the lab not under surveillance? Shouldn't they reasonably assume that Walter will eventually show up there?

Also: could September be The Dove?
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Re: [Official] FRINGE - S5 -Discussion Thread

Postby DarthLocke on Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:29 am

supermodel wrote:One thing that is bothering me a lot is the way the Observers seem so clueless. How were they so easily fooled by re-ambering the lab? Actually, what really bothers me is the fact that the lab was not under guard in the first place. If they know that Walter & Co. have returned, why was the lab not under surveillance? Shouldn't they reasonably assume that Walter will eventually show up there?

Also: could September be The Dove?


Another reason why I think this is Bardo. I know you and I both had noticed kind of strange and/or not exactly well explained, or thought out plots/quantum mechanics with this amber time line. I agree that they "should" be able to know better...

But I have to say that in 5x03 I got a REALLY bad feeling when they left Astrid behind at the lab (It's strange that we haven't seen her character take any kind of a back lash from getting shot or even having some compassion for William Bell -she questioned Walter when he took Bell's hand at the end of LOT)...I could see the Observers coming back to integrate/kill her!

I wish September would be "Dove", but in LOT Walter suggested that the other Observers did something really bad him...My money is on Nina too!
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Re: [Official] FRINGE - S5 -Discussion Thread

Postby WJames on Sat Nov 03, 2012 2:51 pm

^ Wasn't there a scene where Broyles CONFIRMS directly that he IS the Dove? I have to rewatch the epi, but I'm 99% sure there was.

Anyway... The Origin Story

Was great! Peter the first Observer???

9/10

p.s. There was a little Buddha in the room in the first scene. And the promo for the next episode showed the glyphs on the doors of the apartments. The seahorse and an apple.
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Re: [Official] FRINGE - S5 -Discussion Thread

Postby DarthLocke on Sat Nov 03, 2012 6:47 pm

Sorry late to the party, having a really bad day.

Thought this one was GREAT!

Plenty of allusions to Peter and the Machine with a cube and "a box" (IMO hinting at again that everything stems from William Bell,-6:02 A.M - Nina Walter notice Machine "Bell's signature")

I always thought that most things we experience including Fringe events are all 'steps' repeating in the time lines of how the Observers were ever created. Peter and the Machine, I always felt was a BIG one, as it was about "controlling reality" by being connected to technology and now it seems a juxtaposition as Peter has plugged himself in.

It's clear he is now in the role of Walternate and/or the roles of all Walter's pasts. It's clear that LOVE is the key again, as perhaps Peter will prove that "he is better than his father" by not completely loosing sight of what he loves because of his loss. However, even though Mr. X seems to be William Bell in every time line, since it is his beliefs and tech pushing for the death of Olivia, it is the Walters that have their hands on the trigger, and so could Peter now be the one to pull that trigger?????

I am wondering if next weeks episode title reflects some other future the Observers are coming from and not the red universe..I think next week could be Walter's sacrifice.

I was glad to see Olivia cry and now maybe she will finally fight again for Peter and saving him...

As some of you know, s4's finale was falsely given as "End Game", before we received word that it would be "Brave New World"...

But it reminded me of Alias (As The Cube, Orchid, and Mueller Device, along with the horizon were apart of Rambaldi's "end game') and the Mueller device, especially since the Observers may operate at time like "Bee Hive Mind"...In Alias it was this Orchid elixer that made the Bee's hostile and eventually people...This device may be the thing that is keeping the Observers from feeling....If it would telepathic and provides an "a ghost network" between Observers that perhaps Peter will change their emotions or Olivia and Walter will have to find a way to modify a single source, a queen bee, as it were....

Thought this one was a GREAT turning point.


WJames,

Ya I am looking forward to the
Spoiler (Click to reveal/hide)
POCKET UNIVERSE!!!! next week :thumbsup:


Also I also thought that in the time line the Observers were created that Peter was a genetically modified clone of Walter's, that over several iterations of time lines, incarnated to 'his son with a sickness' (as skin sicknesses are things we have seen that I also think related to the origins of the Observers) -But even these allusions back the machine also hint at that...

About Broyles... I am not sure. I think there is a moment were he implies it, but I do not think it is actually stated. If I have time later I will go over the transcript.
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Re: [Official] FRINGE - S5 -Discussion Thread

Postby DarthLocke on Sat Nov 03, 2012 6:47 pm

Now I double posted, sorry. :cry:
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Re: [Official] FRINGE - S5 -Discussion Thread

Postby JacobsMom on Sun Nov 04, 2012 11:16 pm

This episode was a little slower paced for me but I still enjoyed all the scenes with Olivia grieving in her own way. I loved how Walter was listening in to Peter and Olivia's conversation and then decided he needed to intervene with that tape of little Etta. Lot's of touching moments in this episode!

My favorite scene had to be with Peter and the kidnapped Observer. Just as we are to believe Peter has figured out how to crack this Observer, we then learn that Peter was just lucky and good at what he does by putting the machine together. I'm not sure how much Peter will learn by sticking that thing in his skull but it does put him back into that mode of being part of a machine again. I hope that this doesn't destroy his fragile relationship with Olivia now that she wants them together again. BTW, did anyone else think "shapeshifter" when the rebels showed Peter how they controlled the Observer? :D

I am almost expecting William Bell to show up at some point. We aren't at the halfway mark of episodes yet, but before this all ends I can see him making his final appearance in the series. Once again I think the viewers will get to see another side of him in whatever his involvement could be with the future and these Observers.
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Re: [Official] FRINGE - S5 -Discussion Thread

Postby supermodel on Thu Nov 08, 2012 6:07 pm

To me the scariest moment was when Peter said "I could be so much more than you if I had that tech in my head."

That's not just hate and vengeance, that's hubris talking. He doesn't say "I could wipe you out" or "I could get even," his thoughts here seem to be more about himself than about Etta (or Olivia or anyone else.) It's self-aggrandizing in a way that I think is not the norm but also not unprecedented for Peter.

And then he proceeds to put the implant in his head, a very selfish move. The smart move would have been to take it to Walter for study. Sure, maybe the implant will give Peter some Observer powers and he can take them on one by one. But that gives the team only one weapon. Peter didn't consider that with a bit of study maybe Walter can find a way to disable all implants in all Observers. Maybe some kind of magnetic wave or EM field could be effective against groups of Observers. But now they will never know, because Peter was more interested in accruing power to himself.

This is the kind of hubris that we saw in Walter and William from their earliest days together and it is what set the story in motion in the first place. Walter continued to display such excessive pride and disregard for consequences for several seasons, it took him a long time to learn his lesson, and it seems the son is doomed to repeat his father's mistakes.

What price will Peter pay? He's going to lose Olivia, will he lose his very self, the personality and emotions that make him Peter? Will he lose his life? We all know anything is possible at this point.
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Re: [Official] FRINGE - S5 -Discussion Thread

Postby DarthLocke on Thu Nov 08, 2012 9:09 pm

supermodel wrote:To me the scariest moment was when Peter said "I could be so much more than you if I had that tech in my head."

That's not just hate and vengeance, that's hubris talking. He doesn't say "I could wipe you out" or "I could get even," his thoughts here seem to be more about himself than about Etta (or Olivia or anyone else.) It's self-aggrandizing in a way that I think is not the norm but also not unprecedented for Peter.

And then he proceeds to put the implant in his head, a very selfish move. The smart move would have been to take it to Walter for study. Sure, maybe the implant will give Peter some Observer powers and he can take them on one by one. But that gives the team only one weapon. Peter didn't consider that with a bit of study maybe Walter can find a way to disable all implants in all Observers. Maybe some kind of magnetic wave or EM field could be effective against groups of Observers. But now they will never know, because Peter was more interested in accruing power to himself.

This is the kind of hubris that we saw in Walter and William from their earliest days together and it is what set the story in motion in the first place. Walter continued to display such excessive pride and disregard for consequences for several seasons, it took him a long time to learn his lesson, and it seems the son is doomed to repeat his father's mistakes.

What price will Peter pay? He's going to lose Olivia, will he lose his very self, the personality and emotions that make him Peter? Will he lose his life? We all know anything is possible at this point.



Couldn't agree more. :thumbup: It really does go back to whom any of the Walters (like you said earlier blue Walters) and/or Walternates (s1-3 + "Day We Died" past-future) have ever been, and of course what we have also seen with William Bell, especially our s4 William Bell...

It's another reason I think this time line is a Bardo by testing him/them now that Peter is <i>challenged</i> to be 'better than his father'...
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Re: [Official] FRINGE - S5 -Discussion Thread

Postby DarthLocke on Thu Nov 08, 2012 9:09 pm

supermodel wrote:To me the scariest moment was when Peter said "I could be so much more than you if I had that tech in my head."

That's not just hate and vengeance, that's hubris talking. He doesn't say "I could wipe you out" or "I could get even," his thoughts here seem to be more about himself than about Etta (or Olivia or anyone else.) It's self-aggrandizing in a way that I think is not the norm but also not unprecedented for Peter.

And then he proceeds to put the implant in his head, a very selfish move. The smart move would have been to take it to Walter for study. Sure, maybe the implant will give Peter some Observer powers and he can take them on one by one. But that gives the team only one weapon. Peter didn't consider that with a bit of study maybe Walter can find a way to disable all implants in all Observers. Maybe some kind of magnetic wave or EM field could be effective against groups of Observers. But now they will never know, because Peter was more interested in accruing power to himself.

This is the kind of hubris that we saw in Walter and William from their earliest days together and it is what set the story in motion in the first place. Walter continued to display such excessive pride and disregard for consequences for several seasons, it took him a long time to learn his lesson, and it seems the son is doomed to repeat his father's mistakes.

What price will Peter pay? He's going to lose Olivia, will he lose his very self, the personality and emotions that make him Peter? Will he lose his life? We all know anything is possible at this point.



Couldn't agree more. :thumbup: It really does go back to whom any of the Walters (like you said earlier blue Walters) and/or Walternates (s1-3 + "Day We Died" past-future) have ever been, and of course what we have also seen with William Bell, especially our s4 William Bell...

It's another reason I think this time line is a Bardo by testing him/them now that Peter is <i>challenged</i> to be 'better than his father'...
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Re: [Official] FRINGE - S5 -Discussion Thread

Postby DarthLocke on Sat Nov 10, 2012 2:56 pm

Through the Looking Glass and What Walter Found There


Loved it!

For me, this one really leaned towards the amber time line is a Bardo plane and Peter is still in the/connected to machine theory, as the pocket universe is another metaphor for it. For a while I speculated that amber time line acts as a collective of truths that reflect many of the previous iterations of our season 1-3 timeline, where the quantum mechanics didn't match or make sense in comparison to the other time line(s), as even blue Lincoln Lee hinted to us to "just go with it". -But I think the s5 episodes in time line point out these 'missing pieces' idea, without being too obvious that they don't quite all fit together right, because one thing just leads to another, rather than any one thing being resolved.

Even "Purgatory" was mentioned in relation to Cesil's existence in the pocket universe, as Peter also says, he died the day the bombs came (a hint back to The Day We Died with Peter also experiencing another Peter's history: a previous 2026). It's for this reason I think we will not find the child Observer (or maybe even Donald) in the amber time line, as even having a child Observer only shown and presented within a pocket universe may suggest that it is something that is missing "here" (in the amber time lines) that is what might make everything different and sets the situations apart should Peter return 'home'. Donald also goes back to "August", as Donald is the name of the hit man the Observers hire to take care of if one of them should go "rogue", as falling in love seemed to mean the Observers would have to sacrifice their existence in the universe(s) in order to give up a space of mortality to a human being they believe "should" die, as apart of their desired course correction/outcome...

If I would be right, it would be a pretty neat idea, because it would be like if in Lost there could be a little flash sideways within a flash sideways! :D (not to mention the Through the Looking Glass and What Alice found there parallels between Walter reading to a child Observer, possibly hinting at Walter being a forefather, but also like how Jack read it to David, as David, like Etta, is what the lead the characters to understand new things about themselves and the world around them, with a juxtaposition that in Lost's FS, we never saw anyone die with in it, just seem stationary or move on from it)

I thought the lines between Peter and Walter were also priceless, because really Peter is staring his own delema right in face, as like Walter he went off to do his own selfish hubris thing, which IMO is going to result in Walter and Olivia's deaths, as I think this episode is foreshadowing where almost everyone, especially Olivia in a choke hold (like Short Story About Love) almost died again...

I think this one was one of my favorite episodes of the season. It was real emotional and tocuhed on things that I think will be fundamentally important before the season ends.
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Re: [Official] FRINGE - S5 -Discussion Thread

Postby DarthLocke on Sat Nov 10, 2012 2:56 pm

Through the Looking Glass and What Walter Found There


Loved it!

For me, this one really leaned towards the amber time line is a Bardo plane and Peter is still in the/connected to machine theory, as the pocket universe is another metaphor for it. For a while I speculated that amber time line acts as a collective of truths that reflect many of the previous iterations of our season 1-3 timeline, where the quantum mechanics didn't match or make sense in comparison to the other time line(s), as even blue Lincoln Lee hinted to us to "just go with it". -But I think the s5 episodes in time line point out these 'missing pieces' idea, without being too obvious that they don't quite all fit together right, because one thing just leads to another, rather than any one thing being resolved.

Even "Purgatory" was mentioned in relation to Cesil's existence in the pocket universe, as Peter also says, he died the day the bombs came (a hint back to The Day We Died with Peter also experiencing another Peter's history: a previous 2026). It's for this reason I think we will not find the child Observer (or maybe even Donald) in the amber time line, as even having a child Observer only shown and presented within a pocket universe may suggest that it is something that is missing "here" (in the amber time lines) that is what might make everything different and sets the situations apart should Peter return 'home'. Donald also goes back to "August", as Donald is the name of the hit man the Observers hire to take care of if one of them should go "rogue", as falling in love seemed to mean the Observers would have to sacrifice their existence in the universe(s) in order to give up a space of mortality to a human being they believe "should" die, as apart of their desired course correction/outcome...

If I would be right, it would be a pretty neat idea, because it would be like if in Lost there could be a little flash sideways within a flash sideways! :D (not to mention the Through the Looking Glass and What Alice found there parallels between Walter reading to a child Observer, possibly hinting at Walter being a forefather, but also like how Jack read it to David, as David, like Etta, is what the lead the characters to understand new things about themselves and the world around them, with a juxtaposition that in Lost's FS, we never saw anyone die with in it, just seem stationary or move on from it)

I thought the lines between Peter and Walter were also priceless, because really Peter is staring his own delema right in face, as like Walter he went off to do his own selfish hubris thing, which IMO is going to result in Walter and Olivia's deaths, as I think this episode is foreshadowing where almost everyone, especially Olivia in a choke hold (like Short Story About Love) almost died again...

I think this one was one of my favorite episodes of the season. It was real emotional and tocuhed on things that I think will be fundamentally important before the season ends.
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Re: [Official] FRINGE - S5 -Discussion Thread

Postby JacobsMom on Sun Nov 11, 2012 1:24 am

I have to agree Darth, that I think this is definitely the best episode so far for me! :thumbsup:

That scene at the end between Walter and Peter on the train was just amazing. But the thing I loved was seeing the little Observer boy again. I went back and rewatched a few episodes again. First, Season 1 "Inner Child", where I think it was important that Olivia made this connection with the boy at that point, so that where we are now will help them succeed. Next, Season 2 "August" where we see how he has found the feelings of love that the Observers are missing. This too is relevant to where we are now in the story line. I am wondering if this Donald who was killed in that time period is actually alive during this amber time line? He could be the same one who helped Walter with the video. Seems like that is just too much of a coincidence having the same name. Last, I watched Season 3 "6B" since it was that idea that love could concur all, even through different time lines.

The whole fun house thing with the pocket universes was just great! I kept thinking that the apartment building looked familiar and that the show had used it before? Not sure, but it did look very similar to Season 4 "Wallflower" where the man has his pigment removed from his body by the invisible guy.

My favorite fun scene had to be when Olivia pulls the Observer through the pocket so she can shoot him!! :thumbup:

Can't wait to see where the little radio leads them next! :thumbsup:
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Re: [Official] FRINGE - S5 -Discussion Thread

Postby DarthLocke on Sun Nov 11, 2012 2:29 pm

JacobsMom wrote:I have to agree Darth, that I think this is definitely the best episode so far for me! :thumbsup:

That scene at the end between Walter and Peter on the train was just amazing. But the thing I loved was seeing the little Observer boy again. I went back and rewatched a few episodes again. First, Season 1 "Inner Child", where I think it was important that Olivia made this connection with the boy at that point, so that where we are now will help them succeed. Next, Season 2 "August" where we see how he has found the feelings of love that the Observers are missing. This too is relevant to where we are now in the story line. I am wondering if this Donald who was killed in that time period is actually alive during this amber time line? He could be the same one who helped Walter with the video. Seems like that is just too much of a coincidence having the same name. Last, I watched Season 3 "6B" since it was that idea that love could concur all, even through different time lines.

The whole fun house thing with the pocket universes was just great! I kept thinking that the apartment building looked familiar and that the show had used it before? Not sure, but it did look very similar to Season 4 "Wallflower" where the man has his pigment removed from his body by the invisible guy.

My favorite fun scene had to be when Olivia pulls the Observer through the pocket so she can shoot him!! :thumbup:

Can't wait to see where the little radio leads them next! :thumbsup:



Your right :) , it is very similar to Wallflower's apartments although I was also reminded of 6B, but figured this episode would be Observer related, because the former agent Observers had apartments too and it was one thing that allowed them to appear a little more humanized or civilized.

I don't know what to say about Donald, but I get the feeling that "if" we meet him, and if he is a counterpart to the s1-3 blue(?) Timeline's Donald, then I think he is definitely has opposite allegiances....but I do suspect that we are following a bread crumb trail, where the details we learn don't matter "here", because it's about "where" it's leading to more... I don't expect to see the child Observer again or anywhere in Amber time line, because of the way he was presented in "memory" (on video tape) that only could be "recorded" and viewed in an "along side and in between" pocket universe.

But in any case I do think it one of the coolest episodes ever! :thumbsup:
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Re: [Official] FRINGE - S5 -Discussion Thread

Postby supermodel on Mon Nov 12, 2012 4:07 am

I think we're gonna see that kid again but perhaps in a way we don't expect. Maybe he only stayed inside a short tine, like if he was only in there two days in pocket time and it ws ten years in RW time, then he has been aging "normally" for ten years and is now a grown man.
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