[Official] FRINGE Eps. 4.11 - 4.14 Discussion Thread

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Re: [Official] FRINGE Eps. 4.11 - 4.14 Discussion Thread

Postby DarthLocke on Thu May 24, 2012 6:20 pm

So I was reading more thoroughly about the novel "Brave New World" and there are definitely parallels to the Observers' up and coming occupation in terms of attempting to create a utopia (that's really Marxism-ish beliefs on how to create dystopia, in which most don't recognize the difference)) where individuality is not valued, violent radical emotions repressed, and a cast system of "predetermined" engineered people are created scientifically (no normal reproduction)...We at least know that the Observers most likely themselves are genetically modified humans (the future of humanity that was already created in another timeline), relying primarily on the work of William Bell and Walter Bishop, with cortexiphan being the most valuable asset in their abilities.

But then I started reading about the film adaptations, as I have never seen one! the 1998 TV version features none other than Leonard Nimoy...Nimoy plays Mustapha Mond...

Mustapha Mond - The Resident World Controller of Western Europe, one of only ten World Controllers. He was once an ambitious, young physicist performing illicit research. When his work was discovered, he was given the choice of going into exile or training to become a World Controller. He chose to give up science, and now he censors scientific discoveries and exiles people for unorthodox beliefs. He also keeps a collection of forbidden literature in his safe, including Shakespeare and religious writings. The name "Mond" is similar to the French word "monde", which means “world”, and Mond is indeed the most powerful character in the world of this novel.

Note: Mustapha means "Chosen One"

It seems inevitable that whatever William Bell is/was doing over the course of his life time will relate to the Observer Purges and Occupation. It may suggest the Observers (or a faction) asked him to do this...or they really were the first first people, and all of these works are theirs and are now being corrupted and manipulated...

I think I will watch the film and see if I can understand the character better.

I kept thinking about what Supermodel has been saying about fearing their own extinction... why this time line would matter to their existence. I originally thought when the season began that this could be some previous iteration of our season 1-3 time line that Peter went back to (and made it alternate)...If one would want to preserve their origins in "time" they might try to "lock" the time (time period/time line) up, so now one could mess with it....So maybe this season 4 and on going time line is their original time line...and some how Peter, who never existed in it, now does and this threatens their existence, as perhaps almost every Red Bishop ever created in any other time line since has (hence why Henry would be perceived as a mistake too! -and that season 4 reflects a better Walternate... :hmm: ) But they didn't have to really worry until now...
Last edited by DarthLocke on Sun Sep 02, 2012 1:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [Official] FRINGE Eps. 4.11 - 4.14 Discussion Thread

Postby JacobsMom on Sat May 26, 2012 12:38 am

Interesting ideas Darth!

I am beginning to wonder if Bell has always wanted to create his own "perfect" world and so what he was possibly doing was jumping ahead in time and as you said, "making" his own super humans...aka The Observers. We heard him tell Walter in the finale how he loathed humans as they always messed things up. The Observers could be his answer. It could be that at first they were doing what he intended, to just "observe" humankind. They time traveled around and observed those important moments of time but somewhere down the road things changed. We saw how upset the small group was at the actions of both August and September. Maybe this was the beginning of them deciding to take control over humankind and like you said their existence could be in danger with the latest time line we saw this year.

I am still curious as to what point Bell is coming back to join up with Fringe as we saw him there in the amber. Maybe he finally came to his senses and realized that he created something that got out of control and it was up to him to help stop it. It will be interesting to see how much air time we will get with Nimoy next season! :)
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Re: [Official] FRINGE Eps. 4.11 - 4.14 Discussion Thread

Postby DarthLocke on Sat May 26, 2012 4:21 pm

JacobsMom wrote:Interesting ideas Darth!

I am beginning to wonder if Bell has always wanted to create his own "perfect" world and so what he was possibly doing was jumping ahead in time and as you said, "making" his own super humans...aka The Observers. We heard him tell Walter in the finale how he loathed humans as they always messed things up. The Observers could be his answer. It could be that at first they were doing what he intended, to just "observe" humankind. They time traveled around and observed those important moments of time but somewhere down the road things changed. We saw how upset the small group was at the actions of both August and September. Maybe this was the beginning of them deciding to take control over humankind and like you said their existence could be in danger with the latest time line we saw this year.

I am still curious as to what point Bell is coming back to join up with Fringe as we saw him there in the amber. Maybe he finally came to his senses and realized that he created something that got out of control and it was up to him to help stop it. It will be interesting to see how much air time we will get with Nimoy next season! :)


Thanks for reading! :) --I have been looking for the film Online, but know such luck yet...

With the character parallels of Mustafa Mond with William and just adding multi-universe on it, I feel more certain that another version of Bell and Walter were heavily responsible for their creation, like Dr. Frankenstein. (In the Pilot Peter tells Olivia, "So you're telling me my father is Dr. Frankenstein?") and these themes are continually reflected, as many characters struggle with pain and loss of loved ones...) I think Bell's and Walter's work(s) over several time lines and/or alterations to time lines, have come back to haunt them. (<---Play on "Ghost" Network) And that's why I think season 5 will explain the origin story in conjunction to redeeming themselves by dealing with the current mind set of the Observers...Because the only people who have the capacity and understanding (knowledge) to stop it, are the people who had the capacity and understanding to create it. It makes sense that FRINGE is about coming full circle to face the unforeseen consequences of our actions (Karma).

From the Pilot:

PETER: Let me ask you something. My father, not my favorite. He is without a doubt the most self-absorbed, twisted, abusive, brilliant, myopic son-of-a-bitch on the planet. So he was a chemist. That much I already know. He worked out of a basement lab in Harvard, doing research for a toothpaste company. I also know that there was an accident at the lab one night, when my father was arrested. Beginning the first truly peaceful period in our home, but here is the thing Olivia, my gut tells me, that your friend's life, the one hanging in the balance, is not going to be saved by a tube of toothpaste.
OLIVIA: He worked out of Harvard, but not on toothpaste. He was a part of a classified US Army experimental program called Kelvin Genetics. They gave him the resources to do whatever work he wanted. Which was primarily in an area called "fringe science."
PETER: When you say "fringe science," you mean pseudo-science.
OLIVIA: I suppose. Things like mind control, teleportation, astral projection. Invisibility, genetic mutation, re-animation, fertility...
PETER: Whoa, excuse me for a second. Re-animation, really? So you're telling me... what? My father was Dr. Frankenstein?
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Re: [Official] FRINGE Eps. 4.11 - 4.14 Discussion Thread

Postby DarthLocke on Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:33 pm

I just rewatched LOT for the 4th time and I have picked up on a few more things...

We know that Season 1 Red Broyles, and season 4 Red Broyles both end up working for the Villain of each's reality, as both want to protect their families...

I don't know what blue Broyles situation exactly is in 2036, but it seems like he is under a similar agreement/situation with Widmark (perhaps he got his family back?)....But this Broyles also points out that Widmark must have done something "in the future" to "get such a crap detail"...Widmark at first looks beturbed and then counter reacts by basically saying he enjoys his job, because he likes animals (degrading human beings). --So this hints at once again t to looking at an Observer hierarchy and also that some further "future" from 2036 is also playing a role in 2036...

Walter says:

WALTER: They weren't all bad, you know. One of them even tried to help us. He was called September. What happened to him was... well, unexpected. He told me that, in the year 2609 A.D., they finally ruined the planet. They poisoned it -- the air, the water. And when it was fundamentally uninhabitable, then they traveled back through time, and took our planet from us. Yes, I can build it.

If "they" refer to the Observers, then why would they ruin the planet and travel back, but again these events are supposibly partually what caused 2015-2036 Observer occupation, but again Broyles remarks suggests that there is still another future/future date some of the Observers exist in, in order for Widmark to have orders to "go back" and act. :hmm:

In "Brave New World" we get into Jessica Holt having advanced tech. In Letter's of Transit certain tech is considered "black market tech" (including tech that replaced Simon's eyes!) --I don't know if it's just tech of the past, or more over, black market tech of the past for 2036, is also actually multiple universe tech from 'the future' (or futures) that was brought back into the past, as only in the other 2026, had we seen any kind of "eye replacement" technology... :hmm:

In the main forum some of you may know SpoilerTV member, Wilson Crawford. He brought my attention that the stasis ruins are similar to devil traps in Supernatural...he also told me that some supernatural beings on the show also have tattoos that brand them to behave a certain way...the "Loyalists" in 2036 are all branded on their cheeks (considered an Observer faction) they actually behave like Observers....This idea also kind of goes along with Peter getting his eye lasered by September...

Given this future or anyone a native non loylist from it would hate Observers...This makes me feel a little stronger about when Jessica is from and why she would react the way she did towards September and William Bell...perhaps if William Bell would have collapsed the universes 2036 wouldn't have happened and that's why Jessica was there...to also change the future.... :hmm:

Anyways, it's going to be a long summer I think! Nothing to do but speculate away! :)
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Re: [Official] FRINGE Eps. 4.11 - 4.14 Discussion Thread

Postby DarthLocke on Wed Jun 06, 2012 5:54 pm

So I had yet another thought....

I realized they didn't have coffee anymore, similar to the Red Universe, they just had coffee drops instead...So something clearly physically happened to the world too to put it in such a wierd state..

I also thought it was interesting (because South America has been a place Peter and MD have done buisness and was mentioned in a comic dealing with poison frog) that there are "myths" as to what happened to our Fringe team. Simon says, It's a myth, 'Etta. The original Fringe team didn't vanish. They aren't missing. They died twenty years ago. They aren't coming back to save us from the Observers. They aren't in a desert or, Peru, or immortal.

It's just so strange that nobody really knew what happened, but that there are seemingly crazy stories centered around them...I just wonder if the origins of those myths might show themselves, but more importantly it seem the Observers didn't just come back and lock down humanity...something changed the physical world too (black holes?)... :hmm:
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Re: [Official] FRINGE Eps. 4.11 - 4.14 Discussion Thread

Postby DarthLocke on Sat Nov 03, 2012 12:08 am

Fringe 2-Hr Series Finale will air Friday, January 18th at 8:00 P.M. (EP/PT)!!!!!!! :thumbsup: :cry: :unsure: :cool:
Here's the full press release and comments from Joel H. Wyman

PLEASE NOTE: VERY Mild spoiler from tonight's episode, "Origin Story" in press release!
http://www.spoilertv.com/2012/11/fringe-series-finale-2hr-episode-press.html
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