[Official] FRINGE - S5 -Discussion Thread

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Re: [Official] FRINGE - S5 -Discussion Thread

Postby DarthLocke on Sat Dec 22, 2012 1:53 am

WJames wrote:
DarthLocke wrote:
WJames wrote:
supermodel wrote:I do not think the plot moved forward significantly. The found the kid, big deal


Yes it was a big deal. But we disagree and that's fine. For me 4 episodes before this one actually did nothing in terms of moving the plot forward. Peter becoming an Observer actually went nowhere and was just a cool thing they did for a while. Yes, Peter grew as a person and with the help of love managed to let go of his self destructive ways but it did nothing for the overall plot. We could have seen how Observers act and think through some other means.


I for one was surprised to learn in any capacity that we would ever see the child Observer of the amber time line, in the amber time line, before the series ended. -As for Donald, I'm starting to think that he is the enigma we may never meet, all though my friend and fellow forum member, Rick has great theory that Donald may be September with his "tech" removed, or Canaan, the helpful shapeshifter...

I think the plot with Peter becoming an Observer, they way it suddenly dropped is very similar to when he was pursuing both the shapeshifter tech back in season 3 and how he was pursuing a way home by creating interface tech with the machine during the middle of season 4...


I like Rick's theory very, very much! Donald is obviously someone important, a person who has the knowledge to defeat the Observers! So it would make sense that it is someone who worked close with them and knows their power structure back or rather forward in 27'th century. It makes even more sense if it is September himself who has adopted civilian identity! Brilliant! That would be a true WTF moment! September is the one who coined the plan to defeat the baldies so it actually makes sense!

As for the Observer child... well, I always felt that it was one thing, one loose thread, that Fringe didn't fully close and address. I remember thinking even way back that he would end being up September. Though, not now, this Donald=September theory is too good. But the boy will probably be The One, An Enemy Of Fate. Maybe September/Donald is his father? :P

Finally, about Peter becoming an Observer issue. Yes, you are completely right. They re-threaded familiar ground with him and ended it exactly the same way as before. But maybe it was for the better. We'll know after the finale. Beside, he has to remain on the Light side of the force if he is to be Luke to Walter's Vader in the end. ;)



It is a good theory and Rick has me sold now :lol: . If Donald is going to be somebody, then please let it be September! The only reason I was skeptical was because it's been such a big deal, that I could see it being a red herring, but now I don't want it to be. And nice Star Wars analogy BTW :thumbup:
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Re: [Official] FRINGE - S5 -Discussion Thread

Postby DarthLocke on Sat Dec 22, 2012 3:43 pm

"Anomaly XB - some number I can't remember here"

My friend Rick was VERY right! :thumbup:

"I looked into the eye of this Island, and what I saw was beautiful."

Sadly and nobly Nina sacrificed herself continuing the theme of the bullet that saved the world. And of course the greatest reveal ever is that Donald is September! :w00t: :thumbsup:

I think Nina's final lines to Windmark are some of the BEST lines of the series, but despite some truth in her remarks, Windmark's response to seeing dead-experimented upon Observers showed an emotional vulnerability...something they pretend they don't have.

I think Michael showed Nina the future...or rather an up and coming time line where they will be together again. I think that is what gives her the strength to kill herself.

The Observers tech in trying to track down Nina is a reference back to "The Road Not Taken" (Olivia sees another blue universe with the Lewis and Pratt twins both dead)...at the beginning of season 4 I had a theory that season 4 might be time line that existed before the season 1-3 time line...and I am thinking that might still be true now, except that it is being 're-written' to change the future of the season1-3 timeline, as September had come "back" to warn them from some 'other' future. It could be that September has been traveling between them in order to establish this idea that the Observers of Windmark's time would not know what happened to one of their anomalies and that September would have come accrossed him and not have ever mentioned that data to other Observers...and may suggest two waves or factions of Observers....

This Time Has Been Here the Whole Time Theory:
http://www.spoilertv.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=103&t=23276

Anyways, the BOY(S) MUST LIVE! So looking forward to our final 3 episodes!

PS:Did anyone think Chris Tiltin's score rendered bits of LOST "The End" during certain scenes??
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Re: [Official] FRINGE - S5 -Discussion Thread

Postby Sym on Sat Dec 22, 2012 3:54 pm

Finished watching fringe 5x10 ...... ....... I have a bad feeling about this ...... I guess I'll stay disappointed ....

I'm afraid that in the end we will see another reset ...
and all that we have seen so far will be deleted ...

beginning to be disappointed ....
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Re: [Official] FRINGE - S5 -Discussion Thread

Postby DarthLocke on Sat Dec 22, 2012 4:04 pm

Sym wrote:Finished watching fringe 5x10 ...... ....... I have a bad feeling about this ...... I guess I'll stay disappointed ....

I'm afraid that in the end we will see another reset ...
and all that we have seen so far will be deleted ...

beginning to be disappointed ....



I think it would be good to get some kind of reset. That way Etta, Henry, Nina, Simon, and red Lincoln might live along with all the people who lost the possibility of a happier future due to the Observers occupation...I think it would be very sad to end here with all of these deaths and all of this pain.
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Re: [Official] FRINGE - S5 -Discussion Thread

Postby Sym on Sat Dec 22, 2012 4:21 pm

DarthLocke wrote:
Sym wrote:Finished watching fringe 5x10 ...... ....... I have a bad feeling about this ...... I guess I'll stay disappointed ....

I'm afraid that in the end we will see another reset ...
and all that we have seen so far will be deleted ...

beginning to be disappointed ....



I think it would be good to get some kind of reset. That way Etta, Henry, Nina, Simon, and red Lincoln might live along with all the people who lost the possibility of a happier future due to the Observers occupation...I think it would be very sad to end here with all of these deaths and all of this pain.



My theory:

remember the son of Peter and Olivia Alt?
Walter-alt when the child was born
Walt Alt save blood from the baby.
And if
The child observer and was created with the blood of Peter and Olivia-H.
The small observer and the son of Peter ....
that's why he said in September
"That child should not die!"
because it is the father of the savior of the world
http://twitter.com/symsoa
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Re: [Official] FRINGE - S5 -Discussion Thread

Postby WJames on Sat Dec 22, 2012 6:21 pm

DarthLocke wrote: "Anomaly XB - some number I can't remember here"

My friend Rick was VERY right! :thumbup:

"I looked into the eye of this Island, and what I saw was beautiful."

Sadly and nobly Nina sacrificed herself continuing the theme of the bullet that saved the world. And of course the greatest reveal ever is that Donald is September! :w00t: :thumbsup:

I think Nina's final lines to Windmark are some of the BEST lines of the series, but despite some truth in her remarks, Windmark's response to seeing dead-experimented upon Observers showed an emotional vulnerability...something they pretend they don't have.

I think Michael showed Nina the future...or rather an up and coming time line where they will be together again. I think that is what gives her the strength to kill herself.

The Observers tech in trying to track down Nina is a reference back to "The Road Not Taken" (Olivia sees another blue universe with the Lewis and Pratt twins both dead)...at the beginning of season 4 I had a theory that season 4 might be time line that existed before the season 1-3 time line...and I am thinking that might still be true now, except that it is being 're-written' to change the future of the season1-3 timeline, as September had come "back" to warn them from some 'other' future. It could be that September has been traveling between them in order to establish this idea that the Observers of Windmark's time would not know what happened to one of their anomalies and that September would have come accrossed him and not have ever mentioned that data to other Observers...and may suggest two waves or factions of Observers....

This Time Has Been Here the Whole Time Theory:
http://www.spoilertv.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=103&t=23276

Anyways, the BOY(S) MUST LIVE! So looking forward to our final 3 episodes!

PS:Did anyone think Chris Tiltin's score rendered bits of LOST "The End" during certain scenes??


I had a lump in my throat when Nina died, but my eyes remained dry, then that beautiful ending came. The music and the revelation... I don't know, there is just something kind and sincere about Michael Cerveris, so when he smiled, my eyes couldn't take it anymore. I just love this show so much.

That bit what you wrote about Michael showing Nina a better world, future or timeline was the first thing that came to my mind and I agree that it gave her the strength to pull the trigger.

Lizards... so obvious, yet it never occurred to me. The way they tilt their head and move about... Lizards. :O Fringe ripped David Icke! :PP

September was definitely a busy bee, altering timelines, shaping universes so that one version could strike back against the Lizards.

Sym wrote:
My theory:

remember the son of Peter and Olivia Alt?
Walter-alt when the child was born
Walt Alt save blood from the baby.
And if
The child observer and was created with the blood of Peter and Olivia-H.
The small observer and the son of Peter ....
that's why he said in September
"That child should not die!"
because it is the father of the savior of the world


I don't think it happened that way, but it is certainly interesting to think about the possibility that Henry was supposed to be born and then erased so he could manifest again as an anomaly in the far future. An anomaly that will ultimately be the end of the ruling Lizard caste of Men!

A question for anyone:

Do you think that Michael's touch healed Walter??? It obviously restored the memories of his s1-3 version...
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Re: [Official] FRINGE - S5 -Discussion Thread

Postby DarthLocke on Sat Dec 22, 2012 6:49 pm

WJames wrote:[
Do you think that Michael's touch healed Walter??? It obviously restored the memories of his s1-3 version...



I'm not sure. It seemed like Michael was waiting to determine Walter's worthiness. I think ultimately he felt the good Walter and decided to give him "memories" or unlock his memories (including a memory from the blue Walter of the season 1-3 timeline!). -But I think it would be BEAUTIFUL if that was the case, that everything the boy touches finds love instead of hate/revenge (Peter getting into the machine presented a reality with a kinder Walternate and red Olivia...). Maybe that is Septembers real plan to heal Walter and maybe heal the Observers...

There was def a LOST similarity though with those memories rushing back. ;)
Sym wrote:
DarthLocke wrote:
Sym wrote:Finished watching fringe 5x10 ...... ....... I have a bad feeling about this ...... I guess I'll stay disappointed ....

I'm afraid that in the end we will see another reset ...
and all that we have seen so far will be deleted ...

beginning to be disappointed ....



I think it would be good to get some kind of reset. That way Etta, Henry, Nina, Simon, and red Lincoln might live along with all the people who lost the possibility of a happier future due to the Observers occupation...I think it would be very sad to end here with all of these deaths and all of this pain.



My theory:

remember the son of Peter and Olivia Alt?
Walter-alt when the child was born
Walt Alt save blood from the baby.
And if
The child observer and was created with the blood of Peter and Olivia-H.
The small observer and the son of Peter ....
that's why he said in September
"That child should not die!"
because it is the father of the savior of the world


I keep thinking about Henry too and the parallel to erase him with Peter and this whole missing Micheal, missing September, and previous missing Peter ideas....

It would be interesting if Michael was Henry (although I think he just might remain Michael), or if Windmark was Henry, or if Henry could come into play in some way (there's been a few references to Henry Higgins from which Henry is named after with a lot of cab shots/sequences and the beacons connect us back with Henry Jacobson...aka "Touched by Jacob")

If we are in midst of many time lines that we can not see that are in rearrangement processes (because we ran out of time to better explain it), then I think we could have a lot of possible surprises!
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Re: [Official] FRINGE - S5 -Discussion Thread

Postby supermodel on Sat Jan 05, 2013 6:30 am

I'm with Sym, I am not thrilled with the idea of a reset. Personally I don't need to see the dead/alt/whatever characters and a happy ending. I don't think Olivia is meant to be happy, she is a loner who makes sacrifices, she even said it herself when she talked about how she wasn't certain she was meant to be a mom. And maybe none of them are meant to be happy, what they are meant to do is save the world and that is going to involve sacrifice, a greater sacrifice than Etta, who when it comes down to it was a character we didn't know.

I don't think all of our main characters will make it out alive, I think we all could easily imagine a storyline in which Walter and/or Peter die and I think that would be true to the last four seasons of development
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Re: [Official] FRINGE - S5 -Discussion Thread

Postby DarthLocke on Sat Jan 05, 2013 6:55 am

supermodel wrote:I'm with Sym, I am not thrilled with the idea of a reset. Personally I don't need to see the dead/alt/whatever characters and a happy ending. I don't think Olivia is meant to be happy, she is a loner who makes sacrifices, she even said it herself when she talked about how she wasn't certain she was meant to be a mom. And maybe none of them are meant to be happy, what they are meant to do is save the world and that is going to involve sacrifice, a greater sacrifice than Etta, who when it comes down to it was a character we didn't know.

I don't think all of our main characters will make it out alive, I think we all could easily imagine a storyline in which Walter and/or Peter die and I think that would be true to the last four seasons of development


I disagree a bit.

I think that it would be vein and not evolutionary to end the show with the message that says, "It doesn't matter what you do. No matter how many times you save the world. Know matter what you learned. You were solely are created to do or have nothing else, but fight." To me, that is not progressive, inspiring, or thought provoking. It's nihilism.

The season 5 poster art: "Fight for the Future" IMO is about fighting for "a" future (an experience) you want! Don't let others keep taking your life away from you.

It's not that I don't think there could be a magor sacrifice (like Walter), but I think even going back to season 1-3 timelines, the reason there is not a second Peter is because September interfered...and this could still be a key factor.

This time line has narrowed down to this fight with these people, these children of humanity that lack the most vital and possibly unique human emotions, but who impose strong restrictions of freer will on us.

IMO this is the characters last chance to prove they have changed, or learned something...Peter came back to his senses and humanity, because Olivia finally went after him, Walter is trying to fight off hubris aspects of himself (but he is struggling), and Olivia has to start having faith in the love of her daughter instead of denying it (something she starts to realize in The Human Kind)

Reset is really a vague term because given that there could be many kinds of time machines, time re-arrangement methods in a science fiction show, could they still cause a reset in which they will still know what they did, or someone else will.

I am hoping that this is also about changing who the Observers are and not just about eliminating them, otherwise they wouldn't be much better than then the Observers are.
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Re: [Official] FRINGE - S5 -Discussion Thread

Postby WJames on Sun Jan 06, 2013 1:39 am

supermodel wrote:I'm with Sym, I am not thrilled with the idea of a reset. Personally I don't need to see the dead/alt/whatever characters and a happy ending. I don't think Olivia is meant to be happy, she is a loner who makes sacrifices, she even said it herself when she talked about how she wasn't certain she was meant to be a mom. And maybe none of them are meant to be happy, what they are meant to do is save the world and that is going to involve sacrifice, a greater sacrifice than Etta, who when it comes down to it was a character we didn't know.

I don't think all of our main characters will make it out alive, I think we all could easily imagine a storyline in which Walter and/or Peter die and I think that would be true to the last four seasons of development


If I am reading this right you would be satisfied with a scenario where Olivia looses her daughter, husband and everyone she had ever cared about and she just has to accept/deal with that kind of loss and move on in 2036?! Well, I'd blow my brains out if I were her. Not much of an ending.
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Re: [Official] FRINGE - S5 -Discussion Thread

Postby JacobsMom on Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:56 am

I've been absent here for the last month but I did want to return before the end of Fringe. I've been faithfully watching but I had to do a little rewatch of my own before I posted once again. :)

The Human Kind, Black Blotter and Anomaly XB-6783746

I really enjoyed watching these all again as a set. The story between them moved quickly and I felt they made some nice progress to the end of the series. My personal favorite had to be "Black Blotter" just because it was our final "episode 19" and of course it revolved around my favorite character Walter! :thumbsup: Once again the writers outdid themselves with many fun references: tinkerbell, Emerald City, and best of all..Monty Python! I thought the cartoon was fun and gave us one last quirky Fringe moment to remember. :lol: How many shows out there can give you an acid dropping scientist, a shoot out, fun filled media references and an amazing ending with a character who is slowly being ripped apart by his alter ego? :whistle: Of course, I would have loved to see Sam Weiss again in person but I liked the fact that he was involved in the fight right to the end and died inside his Winnebago!! :D

Seeing the quick glimpse of September as "Donald" was wonderful and the way they pieced together the scene that Michael gave to Walter's mind was just beautiful. I can't wait for this Friday's episode!!

I want a happy ending and said before I want them to return to that scene at the park with Etta. I have no problem with a reset if that's what it would be. I do have to agree with Darth that it may be Walter who will have to pay and be the "hero" who loses his life in the end to save them all, including Nina, and the rest of his family. Maybe no one has to die in a reset but I feel Walter is the one who started it all and be our dying hero.
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Re: [Official] FRINGE - S5 -Discussion Thread

Postby DarthLocke on Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:53 pm

So nice to hear from you, JacobsMom! :thumbsup:


My friend and one of out Fringe show experts, Rick, passed this along to me from SERIABLE! Thought it might be something you guys might want to check out, if you haven't already! :)

"Black Blotter" - Easter Eggs!
http://seriable.com/fringe-observations ... k-blotter/

How in the heck is this our second to last Fringe Friday??? :w00t: :cry:
Anyways. tonight's episode looks like a real informative one! Catch you guys tomorrow! :)
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Re: [Official] FRINGE - S5 -Discussion Thread

Postby WJames on Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:00 pm

Sigh... :cry:

Stupid browser crashed on me in the middle of a very long post! I don't have the time or the energy to write it again so I'm just gonna post some thoughts quickly.

The Boy Must Live

- the future is ALL MALE. Yuck. O.o
- Michael Cerveris is awesome
- Walter/Peter father-son moment was amazing
- Astrid is a very pretty lady
- I am not impressed with the plan!!! It seems Rick was right and the observers can hop around history changing shyt because they calculated each and every variable and possibility, like who they can torture and kill and what pebble they can move so they are still there in 2609. Simple, yet unsatisfying explanation for me. Fringe embraces the multiverse yet it tells us that these Observers are exclusive to our timeline and that by changing their specific origin point (2167 was it?) the timeline will be re-written once again without the bad baldies this time. Meh. :P It also seems that when September was *locked out* in season 4, it meant what? That they took out his TT device? But then other things don't make sense...or am I missing something. it also seems the red universe doesn't have an Observer problem. And when you think about it, Observers can also hop in the red universe which means that it would be far easier for them to invade in some XYZ universe where the Norwegian guy in 2167 didn't create them, meaning they can do havoc there without thinking about the consequences! No?
- also, it would be far easier to just stick that device back in September then building an elaborate time machine which demands Walter's life to even work.
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Re: [Official] FRINGE - S5 -Discussion Thread

Postby DarthLocke on Sat Jan 12, 2013 3:43 pm

WJames wrote:Sigh... :cry:

Stupid browser crashed on me in the middle of a very long post! I don't have the time or the energy to write it again so I'm just gonna post some thoughts quickly.

The Boy Must Live

- the future is ALL MALE. Yuck. O.o
- Michael Cerveris is awesome
- Walter/Peter father-son moment was amazing
- Astrid is a very pretty lady
- I am not impressed with the plan!!! It seems Rick was right and the observers can hop around history changing shyt because they calculated each and every variable and possibility, like who they can torture and kill and what pebble they can move so they are still there in 2609. Simple, yet unsatisfying explanation for me. Fringe embraces the multiverse yet it tells us that these Observers are exclusive to our timeline and that by changing their specific origin point (2167 was it?) the timeline will be re-written once again without the bad baldies this time. Meh. :P It also seems that when September was *locked out* in season 4, it meant what? That they took out his TT device? But then other things don't make sense...or am I missing something. it also seems the red universe doesn't have an Observer problem. And when you think about it, Observers can also hop in the red universe which means that it would be far easier for them to invade in some XYZ universe where the Norwegian guy in 2167 didn't create them, meaning they can do havoc there without thinking about the consequences! No?
- also, it would be far easier to just stick that device back in September then building an elaborate time machine which demands Walter's life to even work.



I need to rewatch it again, because my dogs were going nuts during most of the episode. So I missed chunks of dialogue...the one thing I did catch though is that September was able to bring physical objects (envelope from white tulip) to the amber time line(s), again suggesting it co-existed with our season1-3 timeline. (so it seems like it is all Observers origin time line)

I am trying to figure out if September was going back and fourth between both sets of parallel universes the whole time or not, but I know he had been in the process of altering the amber time line by going back to warn Olivia and hiding Micheal in it's past (unless with Michael he meant the past of the other blue time line -->inner Child, but I would hope not, because he was starving to death underground...)

I think the point of Walter sacrificing himself is what will change "fate", if fate can be changed, or altered...

Going back to Lost for a minute and Bad Robot's beautiful use of "music" within the science aspects, Charlie Pace made it so that the group that moves onto a better life in the next time line, could, because this time, unlike previous times, Charlie chose a specific purpose and gave meaning to his own death. It suggest that the reasons we do things is apart of destiny or destination.

However, I do think there is a reason Walter was trying to fight himself in "Black Blotter" and why Michael didn't just give him memories of the plan...

Towards the end of season 3 September was trying to show December that Walter had changed and was ready to accept loosing Peter or "death", or "separation"....Despite whatever the amber time line is, I still think it is meant to be like a test for all of them. This is also why I think Peter is also skeptical about "the plan".

I think September and Michael know a lot more than what has been presented.

I love the scene where Windmark comes face to face with Michael. It's this brilliant polar opposite that I love! :thumbup: :thumbup:
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Re: [Official] FRINGE - S5 -Discussion Thread

Postby JacobsMom on Sat Jan 12, 2013 11:53 pm

I actually loved this last episode! So many great moments but I also need to do a rewatch.

Did anyone else miss a few minutes of the program right after the Ford commercial in the last 15 minutes? I will now have to go online to catch what I missed as Walter goes with Donald to get the things needed. When the screen finally "unfreezed" after the commercial, all I saw was the two of them in conversation. :x

Darth,my understanding from Donald was that he DID hide Michael in that space underground in the blue universe. I'm sure he knew that those men would find him. Remember how that man didn't want to set the explosives because he had a "feeling" something wasn't right? I believe that is exactly where Donald/September took Michael. I'll never forget that last scene where the Michael looks out the back window of the car and sees September on the sidewalk. How wonderful to know now that September was his biological father. :wub:
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