Someone From Bad Robot's Take

General discussion for 'LOST'

Moderator: Moderators

Forum rules
Please be advised that this is a NO SPOILER forum section. No spoilers are to be posted here. Use the spoiler sections for anything spoiler related.

Someone From Bad Robot's Take

Postby empire on Mon May 24, 2010 10:40 pm

This is making the rounds, not sure how true it is...but a worthwhile read if so

Good stuff on here! I can finally throw in my two cents! I've had to bite my tongue for far too long. Also, hopefully I can answer some of John's questions about Dharma and the "pointless breadcrumbs" that really, weren't so pointless ...

First ...
The Island:

It was real. Everything that happened on the island that we saw throughout the 6 seasons was real. Forget the final image of the plane crash, it was put in purposely to f*&k with people's heads and show how far the show had come. They really crashed. They really survived. They really discovered Dharma and the Others. The Island keeps the balance of good and evil in the world. It always has and always will perform that role. And the Island will always need a "Protector". Jacob wasn't the first, Hurley won't be the last. However, Jacob had to deal with a malevolent force (MIB) that his mother, nor Hurley had to deal with. He created the devil and had to find a way to kill him -- even though the rules prevented him from actually doing so.

Thus began Jacob's plan to bring candidates to the Island to do the one thing he couldn't do. Kill the MIB. He had a huge list of candidates that spanned generations. Yet everytime he brought people there, the MIB corrupted them and caused them to kill one another. That was until Richard came along and helped Jacob understand that if he didn't take a more active role, then his plan would never work.

Enter Dharma -- which I'm not sure why John is having such a hard time grasping. Dharma, like the countless scores of people that were brought to the island before, were brought there by Jacob as part of his plan to kill the MIB. However, the MIB was aware of this plan and interferred by "corrupting" Ben. Making Ben believe he was doing the work of Jacob when in reality he was doing the work of the MIB. This carried over into all of Ben's "off-island" activities. He was the leader. He spoke for Jacob as far as they were concerned. So the "Others" killed Dharma and later were actively trying to kill Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley and all the candidates because that's what the MIB wanted. And what he couldn't do for himself.

Dharma was originally brought in to be good. But was turned bad by MIB's corruption and eventually destroyed by his pawn Ben. Now, was Dharma only brought there to help Jack and the other Canditates on their overall quest to kill Smokey? Or did Jacob have another list of Canidates from the Dharma group that we were never aware of? That's a question that is purposley not answered because whatever answer the writers came up with would be worse than the one you come up with for yourself. Still ... Dharma's purpose is not "pointless" or even vague. Hell, it's pretty blantent.

Still, despite his grand plan, Jacob wanted to give his "candidates" (our Lostaways) the one thing he, nor his brother, were ever afforded: free will. Hence him bringing a host of "candidates" through the decades and letting them "choose" which one would actually do the job in the end. Maybe he knew Jack would be the one to kill Flocke and that Hurley would be the protector in the end. Maybe he didn't. But that was always the key question of the show: Fate vs Free-will. Science vs Faith. Personally I think Jacob knew from the beginning what was going to happen and that everyone played a part over 6 seasons in helping Jack get to the point where he needed to be to kill Smokey and make Hurley the protector -- I know that's how a lot of the writers viewed it. But again, they won't answer that (nor should they) because that ruins the fun.

In the end, Jack got to do what he always wanted to do from the very first episode of the show: Save his fellow Lostaways. He got Kate and Sawyer off the island and he gave Hurley the purpose in life he'd always been missing. And, in Sideways world (which we'll get to next) he in fact saved everyone by helping them all move on ...

Now...

Sideways World:

Sideways world is where it gets really cool in terms of theology and metaphysical discussion (for me at least -- because I love history/religion theories and loved all the talks in the writer's room about it). Basically what the show is proposing is that we're all linked to certain people during our lives. Call them soulmates (though it's not exactly the best word). But these people we're linked to are with us duing "the most important moments of our lives" as Christian said. These are the people we move through the universe with from lifetime to lifetime. It's loosely based in Hinduisim with large doses of western religion thrown into the mix.

The conceit that the writers created, basing it off these religious philosophies, was that as a group, the Lostaways subconsciously created this "sideways" world where they exist in purgatory until they are "awakened" and find one another. Once they all find one another, they can then move on and move forward. In essence, this is the show's concept of the afterlife. According to the show, everyone creates their own "Sideways" purgatory with their "soulmates" throughout their lives and exist there until they all move on together. That's a beautiful notion. Even if you aren't religious or even spirtual, the idea that we live AND die together is deeply profound and moving.

It's a really cool and spirtual concept that fits the whole tone and subtext the show has had from the beginning. These people were SUPPOSED to be together on that plane. They were supposed to live through these events -- not JUST because of Jacob. But because that's what the universe or God (depending on how religious you wish to get) wanted to happen. The show was always about science vs faith -- and it ultimately came down on the side of faith. It answered THE core question of the series. The one question that has been at the root of every island mystery, every character backstory, every plot twist. That, by itself, is quite an accomplishment.

How much you want to extrapolate from that is up to you as the viewer. Think about season 1 when we first found the Hatch. Everyone thought that's THE answer! Whatever is down there is the answer! Then, as we discovered it was just one station of many. One link in a very long chain that kept revealing more, and more of a larger mosiac.

But the writer's took it even further this season by contrasting this Sideways "purgatory" with the Island itself. Remember when Michael appeared to Hurley, he said he was not allowed to leave the Island. Just like the MIB. He wasn't allowed into this sideways world and thus, was not afforded the opportunity to move on. Why? Because he had proven himself to be unworthy with his actions on the Island. He failed the test. The others, passed. They made it into Sideways world when they died -- some before Jack, some years later. In Hurley's case, maybe centuries later. They exist in this sideways world until they are "awakened" and they can only move on TOGETHER because they are linked. They are destined to be together for eternity. That was their destiny.

They were NOT linked to Anna Lucia, Daniel, Roussou, Alex, Miles, Lupidis, (and all the rest who weren't in the chuch -- basically everyone who wasn't in season 1). Yet those people exist in Sideways world. Why? Well again, here's where they leave it up to you to decide. The way I like to think about it, is that those people who were left behind in Sideways world have to find their own soulmates before they can wake up. It's possible that those links aren't people from the island but from their other life (Anna's parnter, the guy she shot --- Roussou's husband, etc etc).

A lot of people have been talking about Ben and why he didn't go into the Church. And if you think of Sideways world in this way, then it gives you the answer to that very question. Ben can't move on yet because he hasn't connected with the people he needs to. It's going to be his job to awaken Roussou, Alex, Anna Lucia (maybe), Ethan, Goodspeed, his father and the rest. He has to attone for his sins more than he did by being Hurley's number two. He has to do what Hurley and Desmond did for our Lostaways with his own people. He has to help them connect. And he can only move on when all the links in his chain are ready to. Same can be said for Faraday, Charlotte, Whidmore, Hawkins etc. It's really a neat, and cool concept. At least to me.

But, from a more "behind the scenes" note: the reason Ben's not in the church, and the reason no one is in the church but for Season 1 people is because they wrote the ending to the show after writing the pilot. And never changed it. The writers always said (and many didn't believe them) that they knew their ending from the very first episode. I applaud them for that. It's pretty fantastic. Originally Ben was supposed to have a 3 episode arc and be done. But he became a big part of the show. They could have easily changed their ending and put him in the church -- but instead they problem solved it. Gave him a BRILLIANT moment with Locke outside the church ... and then that was it. I loved that. For those that wonder -- the original ending started the moment Jack walked into the church and touches the casket to Jack closing his eyes as the other plane flies away. That was always JJ's ending. And they kept it.

For me the ending of this show means a lot. Not only because I worked on it, but because as a writer it inspired me in a way the medium had never done before. I've been inspired to write by great films. Maybe too many to count. And there have been amazing TV shows that I've loved (X-Files, 24, Sopranos, countless 1/2 hour shows). But none did what LOST did for me. None showed me that you could take huge risks (writing a show about faith for network TV) and stick to your creative guns and STILL please the audience. I learned a lot from the show as a writer. I learned even more from being around the incredible writers, producers, PAs, interns and everyone else who slaved on the show for 6 years.

In the end, for me, LOST was a touchstone show that dealt with faith, the afterlife, and all these big, spirtual questions that most shows don't touch. And to me, they never once waivered from their core story -- even with all the sci-fi elements they mixed in. To walk that long and daunting of a creative tightrope and survive is simply astounding.
empire
Viewer
 
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 10:37 pm
Gender: Male


Ads are removed for registered users






Ads are removed for registered users

Re: Someone From Bad Robot's Take

Postby bongsmokemonster on Mon May 24, 2010 10:50 pm

Hes right about everything except how DHARMA got to the Island. They intentionally and willingly found the Island with science, not by Jacob. Jacob brought the U.S. Army to the Island, and DHARMA found out about the Island through them, then located it on their own.
bongsmokemonster
Stunt Double
 
Posts: 142
Joined: Sun May 16, 2010 6:58 pm
Gender: Male

Re: Someone From Bad Robot's Take

Postby chris_s on Mon May 24, 2010 10:53 pm

Whether it's authentic or not, it's a good read.
User avatar
chris_s
Supporting Actor
 
Posts: 600
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2009 1:10 pm
Location: Boston
Gender: Female

Re: Someone From Bad Robot's Take

Postby gimmers3000 on Mon May 24, 2010 10:57 pm

Well hes wrong about only season 1 people being in the church. Juliet, Desmond, Penny were all from season 2 and 3
Get up John, You've got work to do...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZaaw6wOi1Q Best video ever!

September 22, 2004 - May 23, 2010 R.I.P LOST
User avatar
gimmers3000
Guest Star
 
Posts: 491
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2009 9:14 pm
Location: Bath, England
Gender: Male

Re: Someone From Bad Robot's Take

Postby soccerzombie on Mon May 24, 2010 11:12 pm

gimmers3000 wrote:Well hes wrong about only season 1 people being in the church. Juliet, Desmond, Penny were all from season 2 and 3


That is true, but they can be there. Desmond brought everyone together, awakened them all. Penny is his soulmate. Juliet is with Sawyer. Easy to write them in. And, i wholeheartedly agree with what this guy says, genuine or not.
User avatar
soccerzombie
Stunt Double
 
Posts: 199
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 11:38 pm
Gender: Male

Re: Someone From Bad Robot's Take

Postby the goat man on Mon May 24, 2010 11:23 pm

Think the Army in 1950 got there on its own too. Although they were militaristic, their objective was science driven. There was two ways to get to the Island. Brought there by Jacob because of faith or on your own through science. The Army abandoned their project when their team disappeared. Dharma followed their scientific studies and found the Island for academic reasons. The Army being killed was by Jacob to protect the Island. It was a matter of kill or be killed. Dharma looks to have been mass murdered on the orders of MIB masquerading as Jacob. I thank the one who posted this for alluding to his experiences on this.
User avatar
the goat man
Stunt Double
 
Posts: 136
Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2010 7:17 pm
Gender: Male

Re: Someone From Bad Robot's Take

Postby bongsmokemonster on Mon May 24, 2010 11:47 pm

the goat man wrote:Think the Army in 1950 got there on its own too. Although they were militaristic, their objective was science driven. There was two ways to get to the Island. Brought there by Jacob because of faith or on your own through science. The Army abandoned their project when their team disappeared. Dharma followed their scientific studies and found the Island for academic reasons. The Army being killed was by Jacob to protect the Island. It was a matter of kill or be killed. Dharma looks to have been mass murdered on the orders of MIB masquerading as Jacob. I thank the one who posted this for alluding to his experiences on this.

wether they found it on their own or not, it was definitely accidental, so its safe to say that jacob probably brought them there.
Jacob didn't kill the Army, nor did he command it.
bongsmokemonster
Stunt Double
 
Posts: 142
Joined: Sun May 16, 2010 6:58 pm
Gender: Male

Re: Someone From Bad Robot's Take

Postby the goat man on Tue May 25, 2010 12:18 am

I'll take it from your perspective bongsmokemonster. I've moved on from what happened, happened on the Island. Now, in the flash sideways, do any of you think that everyone who died before Jack waited for Jack to die to move on? I hope none of my relatives are waiting around for me to answer their life's crisis for them. I see everything that happened in the flash sideways as Jack's take on how they resolved their conflicts and ended up meeting with him. My take on it is that Jack may have been at their wake of life as well before he died. Each one of our characters had one of these final plays to let go and move on. They didn't just wait around to play a part in Jack's passover. Everyone has his own flash sideways to reconcile his life. I don't blame the writers for not showing each of our character's flash sideways on death. I just have faith that it's there.
User avatar
the goat man
Stunt Double
 
Posts: 136
Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2010 7:17 pm
Gender: Male

Re: Someone From Bad Robot's Take

Postby Thirty-Fiver on Tue May 25, 2010 12:24 am

bongsmokemonster wrote:Hes right about everything except how DHARMA got to the Island. They intentionally and willingly found the Island with science, not by Jacob. Jacob brought the U.S. Army to the Island, and DHARMA found out about the Island through them, then located it on their own.


Who's to say that Jacob didn't play a part in Dharma's success in finding the Island?
Image
It's like doing peyote and sneezing slowly for six hours.
User avatar
Thirty-Fiver
Emmy Nominee
 
Posts: 2785
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 3:26 pm
Location: North Cackalacky
Gender: Male

Re: Someone From Bad Robot's Take

Postby lastchancelost on Tue May 25, 2010 12:56 am

So no one else noticed that this was the same church where the Lamp Post was located?
lastchancelost
Viewer
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:24 pm
Location: Hydra Island, 2010
Gender: Male

Re: Someone From Bad Robot's Take

Postby KEB SEA on Tue May 25, 2010 1:08 am

I agree with goat man that each person in Lost has their own "waiting room" with their own community of people who are important to them when they pass over. That's why some characters aren't in the waiting room with Jack, like Ji Yeon, Abbadon, etc. They weren't important in Jack's life. Hurley's waiting room of people would be much different (and bigger) than Jack's.

the goat man wrote:I'll take it from your perspective bongsmokemonster. I've moved on from what happened, happened on the Island. Now, in the flash sideways, do any of you think that everyone who died before Jack waited for Jack to die to move on? I hope none of my relatives are waiting around for me to answer their life's crisis for them. I see everything that happened in the flash sideways as Jack's take on how they resolved their conflicts and ended up meeting with him. My take on it is that Jack may have been at their wake of life as well before he died. Each one of our characters had one of these final plays to let go and move on. They didn't just wait around to play a part in Jack's passover. Everyone has his own flash sideways to reconcile his life. I don't blame the writers for not showing each of our character's flash sideways on death. I just have faith that it's there.
KEB SEA
Viewer
 
Posts: 34
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009 7:04 pm
Gender: Female

Re: Someone From Bad Robot's Take

Postby bongsmokemonster on Tue May 25, 2010 1:23 am

Thirty-Fiver wrote:
bongsmokemonster wrote:Hes right about everything except how DHARMA got to the Island. They intentionally and willingly found the Island with science, not by Jacob. Jacob brought the U.S. Army to the Island, and DHARMA found out about the Island through them, then located it on their own.


Who's to say that Jacob didn't play a part in Dharma's success in finding the Island?


Because they knew where to find the Island without his help. Unless he built the Lamp Post and calibrated it for them, they found it on their own. could he have helped nudge them in the right direction? sure, hes done it a lot before, but it was definitely more than just his ability or influence that brought them there
bongsmokemonster
Stunt Double
 
Posts: 142
Joined: Sun May 16, 2010 6:58 pm
Gender: Male

Re: Someone From Bad Robot's Take

Postby Cyndyk on Tue May 25, 2010 2:20 am

Anyone care to shed some light on where this is making the rounds? Where has this article shown up?
ImageImage
Image
Image
Image

"There was Winkage" Audrey Parker
Cyndyk
Guest Star
 
Posts: 303
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2010 7:07 am
Location: Virginia
Gender: Female

Re: Someone From Bad Robot's Take

Postby Kowalski on Tue May 25, 2010 3:14 am

the goat man wrote:I'll take it from your perspective bongsmokemonster. I've moved on from what happened, happened on the Island. Now, in the flash sideways, do any of you think that everyone who died before Jack waited for Jack to die to move on? I hope none of my relatives are waiting around for me to answer their life's crisis for them. I see everything that happened in the flash sideways as Jack's take on how they resolved their conflicts and ended up meeting with him. My take on it is that Jack may have been at their wake of life as well before he died. Each one of our characters had one of these final plays to let go and move on. They didn't just wait around to play a part in Jack's passover. Everyone has his own flash sideways to reconcile his life. I don't blame the writers for not showing each of our character's flash sideways on death. I just have faith that it's there.


They're not waiting. Like Christian says, there's no "now" in that place. There is no time, no before, not after and no waiting. They're there, Even Jack is "waiting" for Hurley, who dies a lot later.

Also, not everything is from Jack's point of view. The dialogue between Eloise and Desmond, Ana Lucia entering the picture and Desmond saying she's "not ready" and will not go with them, Ben deciding to stay in the flash-sideways, probably to atone for killing his father, and to try to build up the realtionships with Danielle and Alex, are not Jack-related things.

Anyway the bad robot guy's take is very interesting, I agree with many of his views.
Kowalski
Viewer
 
Posts: 35
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 8:20 pm
Gender: Male

Re: Someone From Bad Robot's Take

Postby DarthLocke on Tue May 25, 2010 3:28 am

lastchancelost wrote:So no one else noticed that this was the same church where the Lamp Post was located?



I did. especially when Kate said they were going go back. This is why I know it's more Jack's awakening then everyone elses because there are things with in that primaraly pertianed to his memory, his view point.

For me I still hope the light was the Island in some way...preserving their essence.
Image
Image

Yet for all their evolution, they form no bonds.
Love does not exist for them. They are incapable of dreaming,
Of contemplating beauty, Of knowing something greater than themselves.
User avatar
DarthLocke
Show Expert
 
Posts: 7811
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:33 pm
Location: The Swan of Island's Past.
Gender: Female

Next

Return to Lost Discussion [No spoilers!]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests

cron