Character re-visit: Was Nathan an Other?

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Character re-visit: Was Nathan an Other?

Postby gregaus on Mon Dec 19, 2011 12:29 pm

For some time now, the issue of Nathan (season 2 Taily from 'The Other 48 Days') has been brushed to the side, with most of us accepting his story about being Canadian and the 'the wrong guy'.

I'm asking the question... Was Nathan actually an Other after all?

Now hear me out on this one...

On several re-watches of the episode, I started to realize there was a lot more going on than I originally thought.

One thing that's important to remember is the great LOST Canada deception!

It's well known that EVERY other reference to Canada or being Canadian on LOST (and there are many), is indicative of deception. 100% of the time!

It stands to reason that Nathan may not actually be Canadian at all, or if he is (which would make him the ''only'' true Canadian in the entire series), then he was being deceptive in some other way.

The Canada deception was used quite effectively in season 1 - so much so that when he first says that's where he's from, we became instantly suspicious.

Now - this does not mean he wasn't on the plane. There is little evidence either way - adding credibility to him potentially being 'Widmore's victim' (the guy that is seen in the video that Ben shows Locke later on). Other characters make reference to him being on the beach during the rescue so we know he was there at least. Yet, despite seeing every other Taily survivor, there is not a single frame from those scenes with him in it.

Viewers first see him exactly 10 minutes into the episode 'The Other 48 Days', next to Ana Lucia and seconds before several Others are heard nearby waking up the survivors as Eko kills two of them (triggering his 40 days of silence).

WE do however see Eko, Libby, Ana Lucia, Cindy, Bernard (even Goodwin) etc in the initial crash scenes but not Nathan. This seems a deliberate action on the part of the writers (to connect him with the Others that infiltrated the camp by showing him to us at the same time they appear).

This then leads to the question...

WAS NATHAN PUPROSELY DEFLECTING ATTENTION FROM GOODWIN SO HE WOULD NOT BE CAUGHT OUT BY AN INCREASINGLY PARANOID ANA LUCIA?

Watch carefully at the looks that Goodwin and Nathan give each other thoughout the episode. Some of the looks seem as if they have a previous familiarity with each other. Over time these turn into looks of frustration (with each other and/or the increasingly difficult/dangerous Ana Lucia). Even before he's put into the hole in the ground, Nathan seems scared, possibly worried he's about to blow his cover. The frustration with Goodwin palpable for having to take all the flack for protecting him. He's clearly scared for his life!

Just before his neck is snapped, Nathan asks Goodwin where the beach is. Why would he ask that question when he knows the beach is more dangerous than where they were at that time? Afterall, it was on the beach that the Others attacked them. Could it be that he was one of them and knew that's where he'd find his own kind? None of the other Taily's in his predicament would CHOOSE to go back to the beach after what they went through. (Also, it was Nathan's idea to light the fire there in the first place, leading the Others right to them!)

Consider this also; the Others knew that the beach was the safest place from the smoke monster. There is not a single scene in all six seasons where we see the monster on the actual beach itself (not in smoke form anyway). Only in the woodland nearby. The Tailys however weren't threatened (or even knew of) the smoke monster at that point. Their only threat were the Others who attacked them on the beach time and time again.

Nonetheless, this does not explain why he was referred to as a bad person by both Goodwin and Ben. Surely they would never say that about one of their own. Right?

One theory is that (while previously living amongst the Others), Nathan took a liking to Juliet. As Goodwin was having an affair with her at the time, and Ben's affections for her well known, their individual jealousy could have led them to believing he was 'bad'.

Another reasonable theory is that Nathan somehow conspired with Widmore in some way. If he was Widmore's victim, he may have divulged information to him that he was not supposed to (perhaps under duress/torture).

Another bit of evidence I'd like to throw into the mix is what Goodwin says to Ana Lucia when she blows his cover. He says that Nathan wasn't on the list (of names she found) because he wasn't a good person. But hold on. Everyone else was on the list, including Goodwin himself (obviously to reduce suspicion on himself) - so were the Others setting Nathan up out of spite (we know Ben didn't like him). Remember, Ben also didn't like Goodwin which is why he sent him in the first place. He kept him there long enough to arouse suspicion leading directly to his death - making Juliet his again.

Ben also later tells Juliet (in one of her flashbacks) that Goodwin was "making a case" for Ana Lucia to join them. But the obvious question here is - when the hell did Goodwin have time to talk to Ben at all? If he had ever gone away, Ana Lucia would've noticed. They have a 'system' for that! Goodwin was doing all he could to avoid suspicion.

Who does dissapear though? You guessed it. Nathan. For over 2 hours. We're never shown why. We only know that someone made contact with the others during that time to make the case for Ana Lucia.

And then there's the accent...

He does not seem to sound Canadian. When first put in the hole, he yells 'let me out' several times. There's absolutely no evidence of accent at all! (Canadians have a very distinctive way of pronouncing the word 'out'). This could be put down to poor acting by Josh Randall - but I doubt it very much. Remember... This is LOST. It's unlikely the director would have let this pass. He says 'out' three times and each time it sounds 100% American with not even a hint of anything else. I can't help but think this was deliberate.

Of course we could just accept the story on face value that he's indeed the only Canadian in the show and in Australia for a work conference, and that he is just naturally belligerant, even though he knows Ana Lucia is dangerous, and chooses to put himself in harms way with his behavior because he doesn't like taking orders.

But... LOST in my experience is never ever that simple. Ever!

Any normal person would have heeded the warning signs if only to protect themself. Instead, Nathan defies Ana Lucia to the point of death - indeed she was 1 day away from killing him before Goodwin beat her to it (perhaps feeling that he was about to take him down with him)!

I mean, are we really to believe Nathan is the only real Canadian in six seasons of Lost when the writers have been so consistent with the oft used 'Canada Deception' (both before and after this episode)?

This is just my opinion. I've presented a series of what I believe to be compelling arguments that there is more to this character than meets the eye.

Maybe he wasn't an Other.

What I feel convinced of though is that this is worth investigation/discussion. It would not be the first time we've been deceived by the writers.

Was Nathan really everything he said he was?

There is just too much evidence to the contrary. And on LOST, where there's smoke...

I know we won't be able to solve this here, but while Darlton maintain radio silence on the issue, based on the evidence above, I'd love to know your thoughts. WHAT DO YOU THINK?
Last edited by gregaus on Wed Dec 21, 2011 11:11 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Character re-visit: Was Nathan an Other?

Postby Joshua on Mon Dec 19, 2011 5:24 pm

Great post gregaus, I think that there could be more to his story. But equally, I don't think we'll ever find out and we can choose what we want to believe.
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Re: Character re-visit: Was Nathan an Other?

Postby DharmaLager on Mon Dec 19, 2011 7:39 pm

Some pretty interesting points...it's worth a fun debate it seems - thought I'm apt to believe he's just a member of the flight, you put out some interesting counter arguments.
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Re: Character re-visit: Was Nathan an Other?

Postby joecomet65 on Tue Dec 20, 2011 10:18 pm

the scene where john lock is hung is very similar to the scene where brooks hatlen from shawshank redemption hangs himself. the apartment and the wooden beam in the ceiling look similar. the only thing missing is locke carving his name in the beam. do you think this is a nod to steven king from the directors from lost?
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Re: Character re-visit: Was Nathan an Other?

Postby DarthLocke on Wed Dec 21, 2011 2:10 am

I think it's a great argument :thumbsup: and I want to take it further...

The only discredit would be that the Others never mention him...
Or should I rephrase that, the "outer others" never said anything.

By the time LOST ends we come to realize that there are several factions of others. Ben's intermediate Island Others (who I refer to as 'outer island others' Ex: Ethan, Goodman, ect), the Temple others (or 'inner Island others' ex: Dogen, Lennon, ect), Ben's off Island resources (ex: Gretchen the Butcher), and Jacob's off Island resources (ex: Ilana, Bram, ect). It seems like they may not all know each other or whom is really with whom and whom has the most say, as Richard played mediator between Ben and Jacob, but yet Dogen too talked directly with Jacob, where Ben had not...

So he really could be aligned with any team, whether Ben or Goodwin knew him or not.

Additionally he could also be a Widmore associate since he had been trying for 20yrs to get back to the island, as for all we know anyone might be able to use The Lamp Post Station to 'catch a plane' to the Island....
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Re: Character re-visit: Was Nathan an Other?

Postby gregaus on Wed Dec 21, 2011 11:51 am

Hey everyone... I've re posted my original article. I watched the episode again and picked up a few more things that add to the mystery'. In particular, why he asks Goodwin where the beach is (just before his neck is snapped). All the Tailys know that's more dangerous than being inland as that's where they were attacked several times by the Others.

Have a re-read as there are some other new points as well and let me know what you think.
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Re: Character re-visit: Was Nathan an Other?

Postby DarthLocke on Wed Dec 21, 2011 4:08 pm

I have to add in agreement that Nathan's character was written and presented in such a way, that it's hard to tell.

But thinking about a good senet/chess match, sometimes you need pawns/decoys to set up as a distraction and basically whether Goodwin psychologically provoked Anna's suspicions (remember whom Goodwin is married to!), and/orif he set up Nathan, knowing he's the type of guy who would react that way, or not, it still took great planning. I mean like I said above, even of Nathan isn't with Ben, doesn't mean he isn't with someone else (Jacob, Widmore, ect)
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Re: Character re-visit: Was Nathan an Other?

Postby gregaus on Thu Dec 22, 2011 3:15 pm

DarthLocke - exactly right. There are several possibilities here. For years I just accepted that Nathan was Canadian and Ana Lucia just got it wrong. I knew his character was written in such a way so as to be ambiguous until of course Goodwin is caught out. (Though bear in mind we did actually know Goodwin was an Other from before this episode as his name and background and death were revealed previously - so as viewers, we did NOT need to see Nathan as the bad guy coz we already knew who that was).

But it was on a re-watch when he asks the question, "Which way's the beach?" - a question that initially seemed innocent - that got me thinking. Again, this is Lost and the writers rarely, if ever write dismissive lines like this unless there is something more to it. That was when I started asking the simple question, why did he ask where the beach was? Then the chain of events in my head made me re think the entire premise from scratch. We're supposed to believe his story. On the surface, it supports the drama that unfurls in that episode quite effectively.

But the devil's always in the detail with this show. Things are rarely as they seem (it's what makes watching it again and again such a treat).

Like I said above, I'm not convinced he's an Other. Or a Widmore associate. But... Based on the evidence at hand, the thing I'm least convinced of is that he's Canadian. And if he's not Canadian, what are his motives?

I wonder if anyone else has re-watched the episode and what they think in light of what I've said?

-- Merged Double Post --

Joshua wrote:Great post gregaus, I think that there could be more to his story. But equally, I don't think we'll ever find out and we can choose what we want to believe.


Yeah agreed - the ambiguity is definitely intentional. My thing is, I don't know what to believe beyond feeling there's something fishy going on here. Hence why forums like this will be busy for a very long time talking about Lost :)

-- Merged Double Post --

DharmaLager wrote:Some pretty interesting points...it's worth a fun debate it seems - thought I'm apt to believe he's just a member of the flight, you put out some interesting counter arguments.


Maybe. I do think he was probably on the plane (despite what Flight Attendant Cindy says about being good at remembering faces). If he was on the plane... Was he this guy???

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...ie: th Other that gets roughed up by Widmore? It makes sense as a possibility because Widmore is not allowed to kill an Other (even though he's no longer one of them) so he would likely have let him go at some point.

Also, if you subscribe to the famous LOST Time Loop Theory, and the fact that Widmore and Eloise are kind of like 'time-keepers', making sure that certain events happen, then Widmore would've known that this plane (which remember, he also owns) was going to crash on the island. Eloise certainly knew. So it's not at all far fetched to believe there is some connection with Nathan and Widmore.
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Re: Character re-visit: Was Nathan an Other?

Postby DarthLocke on Sat Dec 24, 2011 12:51 am

I am pro time-loops for sure, but IMO think that the show was genius by suggesting that they all have little pieces of the the puzzle (or using the words of "FRINGE", the equation.) In other words I think many had previous memories transferred (Some more than others), but the Island too via day dreams, astral projection, time travel, the bleed through of spirits, the smoke monster, reflections in The Light House, and the past-future-transitional plane of the Flash Sideways, ALL played a role in suggesting little pieces of memory/memories from a past life (or lives) that were, to some degree, repeating. In some cases it was a feeling rather than a full memory (Daniel), but I think the lack of even attempting to control the outcomes lied in that the series focused on the 815-ers (minus Locke), who were not interested in the bigger picture or even what exactly the Island was and how it could be used. Additionally even if the characters would have either been fully aware and/or conversed better, I think there still has to be some percentage that some would things would change from life time to life time (evolution = progress).

Even using Nathan and his relations to anyone else as an example, still prompts us into the realization that everything about how the Island was presented was about divisions (groups/variable sets) of people in relation to any other in any time period, or perhaps time line...

------

I came back because I thought I would expand on Cindy Chandler too!

Some of you know I felt that there were mini-character dynamic progressions between certain characters within the course of what we would perceive as one time line.

My big example would be from Claudia, "Mother", Jacob, and MIB ---> Danielle, Alex, and Ben---->Cindy, Emma, and Zack, ---> Claire, Kate, Aaron, and by extension the FS's David....did we see another women brutally kill another women and adopt her kids, until a point where a mother was reunited with her son and a possible family extension of a nephew may exist in their next life. (Because Kate did the right thing!)

---But going back to Cindy...she pretty quickly became a temple other, who's color clothes and even hair style reflected "Mother". It was IMO strange to see her become a Temple other, and clearly she was already on board with Ben's faction in "Stranger in a Strangeland", as she explained to Jack that she was there to watch [the out come of Jack's trail]. It was this episode that not only marked a hierarchy in Others, but also we understood that Cindy was one of them and understood something about the Island and possibly the bigger picture and the role an other takes to help protect it.

It could be that she new all along, or that the purpose in abducting the tale section survivors was because they were trying to find other Others and/or Jacob's candidates...
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