Ben's Secret Door Explanation...

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Ben's Secret Door Explanation...

Postby Kid_A on Thu Sep 18, 2008 1:32 pm

On the ABC's LOST website, I just found a 1:30 duration video that explains how the secret door that Ban passed in order to call the Black Smoke, was created. And there is the explanation of Damon; he says that they have an expert about the Egyptian hieroglyphs who they say what they want to have as symbols. On that explanation, Damon says that "We tell him like [you know!] 'Underworld' or 'Reincarnation' and he creates the symbol of that". I think that's not something that Damon would example for, and we have heard of Underworld stuff while coming to season 3, so what I'm curious about is this Reincarnation thing. Do you think/believe that there might be a Reincarnation event on the island or related to the island?

Also Damon mentions to great questions like; why did the Dharma Initiative needed to use hieroglyphs? What was their main purpose? After that, if there are hieroglyphs and a Four-Toed-Statue on the island, how far back does the history of the island goes? [As Damon says: "I know it!"].

So, in relation to the new casting calls for season 5 about the Egyptian characters -if I'm not mistaken- , does the history of the island goes back to the Egyptian times? And a very crackpot question: Could the island be a creation of the Egyptians, who, as believed according to the evidences, are the creators of the pyramides in Egypt? I think everybody have heard a little bit about the miracles that happen in the pyramides.
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Re: Ben's Secret Door Explanation...

Postby T.L.A. on Thu Sep 18, 2008 3:08 pm

Hadn't heard Damon's thoughts on that before, nice one :thumbup:

'Reincarnation' brings to mind Richard Alpert's 'test' which was compared to the search for the Dalai Lama.

'Underworld' could be connected to Abaddon, which among it's meanings and origins features mentions of hell and lost souls.

Alpert. Abaddon. Seems logical to also mention Locke, who has close ties to both and is due to encounter Abaddon again. Ominously, he owes him one.
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Re: Ben's Secret Door Explanation...

Postby Kid_A on Thu Sep 18, 2008 3:52 pm

So, as you say Reincarnation is somehow connected to Richard's 'test', then Locke actually lived on the island "before" and now Richard tries to remind him those times, also Abaddon does. But I couldn't understand why you said that Abaddon is connected to the Underworld thing...?
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Re: Ben's Secret Door Explanation...

Postby kassandra on Thu Sep 18, 2008 4:13 pm

Kid_A wrote:So, as you say Reincarnation is somehow connected to Richard's 'test', then Locke actually lived on the island "before" and now Richard tries to remind him those times, also Abaddon does. But I couldn't understand why you said that Abaddon is connected to the Underworld thing...?


Correct me if I'm misinterpreting you, TLA, but I think it's not so much that Locke was on the island before, as that he is (one) reincarnation of the "Leader."

Abaddon is connected to the underworld because the name belongs to a biblical figure who throws people (?) into a bottomless pit in hell. Charming guy, but, incidentally, on the heavenly side.
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Re: Ben's Secret Door Explanation...

Postby Kid_A on Thu Sep 18, 2008 4:20 pm

So he is not "physically" reincarnated (I don't know if the verb is this word) but "mentally" reincarnated, is that what you say kassandra?
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Re: Ben's Secret Door Explanation...

Postby kassandra on Thu Sep 18, 2008 4:25 pm

I think it's meant to be a bit like the Dalai Lama. When he dies, his next reincarnation is found through a ritual quite similar to the one Richard did with wee Locke - the monks show the child things that belonged to the late Dalai Lama and if the kid recognizes them as his own, he is the reincarnation, and thus, the new Dalai Lama. He gets a new body, but it is the old soul/person, so to speak.
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Re: Ben's Secret Door Explanation...

Postby Kid_A on Thu Sep 18, 2008 4:31 pm

So Locke has the spirit of somebody that has lived on the island before, and is in Locke's body? I'm sorry but I can got confused about this reincarnation thing very easily. :lol:
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Re: Ben's Secret Door Explanation...

Postby kassandra on Thu Sep 18, 2008 4:42 pm

I think technically you could say that, except that it is not possession or anything. It's more like, Locke's soul has been in another body before and that body was on the island and was the leader. When that leader died, his soul (also Locke's soul) was born again in Locke's body and thus became Locke.
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Re: Ben's Secret Door Explanation...

Postby Kid_A on Thu Sep 18, 2008 4:44 pm

That would be interesting if written or processed in one of the episodes of season 5. That could lead to why he is dead in 2005.
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Re: Ben's Secret Door Explanation...

Postby T.L.A. on Thu Sep 18, 2008 5:09 pm

Kid_A wrote:So, as you say Reincarnation is somehow connected to Richard's 'test', then Locke actually lived on the island "before" and now Richard tries to remind him those times, also Abaddon does.


I'm not sure if Locke lived on the island before (that illustration of what appeared to be the smoke monster suggested so, but Lost suggests a lot of things and dosen't always follow through) but around the time the episode aired, much was made of the similarities between Alpert's test and the method the High Lamas use to confirm reincarnation of the Dalai Lama when they believe they have identified a candidate:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalai_Lama#Searching_for_the_reincarnation

"Once the High Lamas have found the home and the boy they believe to be the reincarnation, the boy undergoes a series of tests to affirm the rebirth. They present a number of artefacts belonging to the previous Dalai Lama and if the boy chooses the items which belonged to the previous Dalai Lama, this is seen as a sign, in conjunction with all of the other indications, that the boy is the reincarnation."

kassandra wrote:Correct me if I'm misinterpreting you, TLA, but I think it's not so much that Locke was on the island before, as that he is (one) reincarnation of the "Leader."


Yes, if Locke is the reincarnation of someone who was once on the island, then he presumably could possess knowledge of the place without having physically been there. It's difficult for us to second guess what the writer's do with their inspirations and influences though. They could well have based that aspect of Locke's story on the Dalai Lama but changed it in any number of ways to suit the story or satisfy their own whims.

Kid_A wrote:But I couldn't understand why you said that Abaddon is connected to the Underworld thing...?


If the character was aptly named, then looking up it's origin turns up a dark theme including demons, angels, destruction and hell (used interchangebly with 'underworld' on many occasions).

A king, the angel of the bottomless pit (whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon and in Greek Apollyon, in Latin Exterminans). - Revelations 9:11

One interpretation of the above even attributes Abaddon with deception:

Abaddon means "destruction" and Apollyon means "destroyer." A destroying spirit has deceived mankind. Because man is deceived, he does not realize that he has been the dupe of a destroying spirit.

Could Abbadon have an interest in deceiving Locke? A man who can count among his faults, a vunerability to being duped.

Kid_A wrote:That would be interesting if written or processed in one of the episodes of season 5. That could lead to why he is dead in 2005.


"And then when you and me run into each other again... you'll owe me one."

Abaddon's last words to Locke. And when they do 'run into each other again'..it should be one hell of an episode. ;)
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Re: Ben's Secret Door Explanation...

Postby Kid_A on Thu Sep 18, 2008 5:36 pm

Then I wonder what Locke saw on Black Smoke when he first saw it in season 1. It's not been asked much by the audience, and the producers never mentioned to it. I know that later Locke described it as "looking at the heart of the island", but it is an answer like a Ben-answer, changing the truth but making literature. I hope we'll see what Locke actually saw on the Black Smoke, and whether it is related to the future events or not.
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Re: Ben's Secret Door Explanation...

Postby T.L.A. on Thu Sep 18, 2008 9:01 pm

Kid_A wrote:Then I wonder what Locke saw on Black Smoke when he first saw it in season 1. It's not been asked much by the audience, and the producers never mentioned to it. I know that later Locke described it as "looking at the heart of the island", but it is an answer like a Ben-answer, changing the truth but making literature. I hope we'll see what Locke actually saw on the Black Smoke, and whether it is related to the future events or not.


Locke is infuriating in that respect. I wish he'd elaborate just a little more about things, and that's a great example. But from a writer's point of view, it makes sense. They can have him say things like that and it can be put down to Locke being his crazy, offbeat self. No further explanation necessary. But it would be great to know exactly what he did see because along with his miracle, it arguably stoked his faith in the island to such a degree that he was prepared to place his destiny in it's hands.
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Re: Ben's Secret Door Explanation...

Postby Kid_A on Thu Sep 18, 2008 9:17 pm

His being quite is because that he was a humiliated, ignored person before the island, but on the island he found himself, which gave him more self-confidence so that he doesn't need to talk so much about his experiences on the island, but he asks for more. :P

His seeming as crazy is his own choice, because he doesn't give information about anything much so that we can now what he's about to do, like exploding the submarine, or not entering the numbers to the computer.

A day comes and I might believe that Locke gets orders from the Black Smoke. :D After seeing it, he changed so much.
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Re: Ben's Secret Door Explanation...

Postby julietislost55 on Thu Sep 18, 2008 11:04 pm

I like this line of thinking....

Maybe the reincarnation thing is a good theory.
The so-called leader of the island's soul is born into the next leader?

So, was Ben a leader? Is Locke?
Who or what is Jacob?
Who is Richard?
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Re: Ben's Secret Door Explanation...

Postby Kid_A on Fri Sep 19, 2008 12:49 am

Now I wonder again if Jacob, whether he is a soul or not, a reincarnation or something else.
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