[Official] Alcatraz S1 Discussion

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Re: [Official] Alcatraz S1 Discussion

Postby Darque on Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:46 pm

DarthLocke wrote:
Joshua wrote:Madsen is being ridiculously unrealistic. Why is she not asking more questions? Why let Hauser shut her down when questioning Sylvane? Why is she not wondering where they're being kept?

The music. It's just far too Lost, which makes me begin to compare the two shows in my mind. And Alcatraz doesn't even come close. Literally all of the music would fit right into any Lost episode. The music of Lost was such a huge part of it, that it feels wrong to hear it in this. So please, Giacchino, who I thought could do no wrong - mix it up.


I think the music is just how Giacchhino does mysteries...I here Fringe in it too and not just Lost, but I also hear it's own medley too----It's a stylization of the work. (Even Super 8 points out Williams style as Giacchino picks out some of his sounds, but yet Super 8 also sounds like Lost in spots too.) IMO Bad Robot does want to remind us of Bad Robot. This show isn't LOST, but all Bad Robot works are coming of age stories about people experience really phenomenal events.

I think it's too soon to say if Alcatraz can live up to LOST or FRINGE standards, but really if one were trying to explain Alcatraz to a friend, it wouldn't be that easy...it actually is pretty complicated, because we haven't gotten much that is very very consistent, which is why I think there has to be more than one side to these events.

I think it's not that unrealistic that Rebecca can't push Hauser. He is the head of a secret F.B.I. task force, he has the capacity to kick her off the team and make her life miserable...I have a funny feeling she will start to uncover things and go behind his back, and I think Hauser will lead her down "wrong" paths too.


I agree.
The music is stylized, but it has it's own feel to it. IT falls into the Bad Robot family, but is personalized for Alcatraz.

I think on the surface Alcatraz is pretty easy to explain, but once you go below the surface it does get hard sicne we do not know the direction the show will take or the answers to the disappearance yet. It's really about a tream tracking down 302 people that disappeared. They have to deal with the inmates like a US Marshall would, but also the detective side of things as it relates to the "Why" of the disappearance. After that much it all breaks down and is much harder! XD

How does one push a guy that can erase video uploads on the internet with a few strokes of the keyboard? Even better question: Why do you try?
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Re: [Official] Alcatraz S1 Discussion

Postby JacobsMom on Sat Feb 25, 2012 12:17 am

Darque wrote:How does one push a guy that can erase video uploads on the internet with a few strokes of the keyboard? Even better question: Why do you try?


I didn't mention that scene in my write up but it really showed the viewers what power Hauser has over everything that goes on with these cases. I guess I don't expect tptb to reveal everything about him each week and so we get this slow leak of information about him that may surprise the viewers. I especially like the scenes between Hauser and Dr. B.

I've actually enjoyed watching Rebecca as each of these episodes continues on. She has that spunky, smart style that it fun to watch imo. Yes, she may have to follow Hauser's strict rules as these cases go on but I think she has already been shown to be a match for him especially last week when she had to come and save him from the bombing guy at the beach! :D I would bet she is also secretly working on her own answers behind the scenes.
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Re: [Official] Alcatraz S1 Discussion

Postby DarthLocke on Sat Feb 25, 2012 1:33 am

JacobsMom wrote:
Darque wrote:How does one push a guy that can erase video uploads on the internet with a few strokes of the keyboard? Even better question: Why do you try?


I didn't mention that scene in my write up but it really showed the viewers what power Hauser has over everything that goes on with these cases. I guess I don't expect tptb to reveal everything about him each week and so we get this slow leak of information about him that may surprise the viewers. I especially like the scenes between Hauser and Dr. B.

I've actually enjoyed watching Rebecca as each of these episodes continues on. She has that spunky, smart style that it fun to watch imo. Yes, she may have to follow Hauser's strict rules as these cases go on but I think she has already been shown to be a match for him especially last week when she had to come and save him from the bombing guy at the beach! :D I would bet she is also secretly working on her own answers behind the scenes.


Totally agree! :thumbsup:

I have also felt a deeper connection to Rebecca over the past couple of episodes...I think miss Jones has found her place and I am hoping everyone all the viewers that think they don't care for her might start to change their minds :lol:
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Re: [Official] Alcatraz S1 Discussion

Postby Joshua on Sat Feb 25, 2012 11:35 am

With regards to the music, yes there is similarities in other works, but I've never felt before like the music could fit right into an episode of Lost, or has been lifted from it. For me personally, they are just far far far too similar.
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Re: [Official] Alcatraz S1 Discussion

Postby DarthLocke on Sat Feb 25, 2012 11:10 pm

So I was rethinking some concepts regarding FRINGE thinking about different kinds of planes of existence and I came upon some thing in Rosicrucian beliefs --It's very similar to Eastern Philosophy. It all really does associate with dream states, and perhaps some backwards way to use 'sleeper' agents to collect intelligence, just for the sake of thinking about these things, perhaps on the hope of Hauser's ring...

Rosicrucian Cosmo-Conception: (The Rosicrucian Cosmo-Conception or Mystic Christianity is a Rosicrucian text by Max Heindel)


The author talks about the true man and his journey through involution, spiritual evolution and epigenesis, presenting practical methods to help the development of latent potentials in each one of us and how to transmute our latency into dynamic powers in order to achieve, according to the author, direct knowledge and conscientious work in the inner planes.

It deals with many esoteric topics and also metaphysics, physiology and cosmology (the visible and invisible worlds, human evolution, death and rebirth, nutrition, esoteric training, …). It contains a history of the evolution of the human spirit and related bodies (from before awareness, through various incarnations of our planet on various planes, and into the future development) and of animal, vegetable and mineral life waves (each, of the myriad of life forms and types of consciousness on this physical plane, experiencing their own points in evolution). It also presents an esoteric interpretation about the mission of Christ and an occult analysis of Biblical texts which include the fall of man, the Law of Cause and Consequence and Bible and rebirth, and many other themes which were further developed in the subsequent books, lectures and lessons given by the author at the time (1910s) in the United States.

]Main themes
The Rosicrucian Cosmo-Conception is divided in three parts:
Part I: the Visible and the Invisible Worlds, Man and the Method of Evolution, Rebirth and the Law of Cause and Effect;
Part II: the scheme of Evolution in general and the Evolution of the Solar System and the Earth in particular;
Part III: Christ and His Mission, Future Development of Man and Initiation, Esoteric Training and a Safe Method of Acquiring Firsthand Knowledge.

Most cosmologists today believe that the universe exploded into being some 13.7 billion years ago in a 'smeared-out singularity' called the Big Bang, meaning that space itself came into being at the moment of the big bang and has expanded ever since, creating and carrying the galaxies with it. In 1951, this theory received the blessing of Pope Pius XII.

However, in esoteric cosmology expansion refers to the emanation or unfolding of steadily denser planes or spheres from the spiritual summit, what Greek philosophy called 'The One', until the lowest and most material world is reached.

According to Rosicrucians, another difference is that there is no such thing as empty or void space.
"The space is Spirit in its attenuated form; while matter is crystallized space or Spirit. Spirit in manifestation is dual, that which we see as Form is the negative manifestation of Spirit--crystallized and inert. The positive pole of Spirit manifests as Life, galvanizing the negative Form into action, but both Life and Form originated in Spirit, Space, Chaos! On the other hand, Chaos is not a state which has existed in the past and has now entirely disappeared. It is all around us at the present moment. Were it not that old forms--having outlived their usefulness--are constantly being resolved back into that Chaos, which is also as constantly giving birth to new forms, there could be no progress; the work of evolution would cease and stagnation would prevent the possibility of advancement."

Astral plane
The astral plane, also known as the emotional plane is where consciousness goes after physical death, according to occult philosophy man posesses an astral body.

The Theosophist author Curuppumullage Jinarajadasa wrote that "When a person dies, they become fully conscious in the astral body. After a certain time, the astral body disintegrates, and the person then becomes conscious on the mental plane."

Occultist George Arundale wrote:
In the astral world exist temporarily all those physical entities, men and animals, for whom sleep involves a separation of the physical body for a time from the higher bodies. While we "sleep", we live in our astral bodies, either fully conscious and active, or partly conscious and semi-dormant, as the case may be, according to our evolutionary growth; when we "wake", the physical and the higher bodies are interlocked again, and we cease to be inhabitants of the astral world.”

Some writers have claimed the astral plane can be reached by dreaming. Sylvan Muldoon and psychical researcher Hereward Carrington in their book The Projection of the Astral Body (1929) wrote:
"When you are dreaming you are not really in the same world as when you are conscious — in the physical — although the two worlds merge into one another. While dreaming, you really are in the astral plane, and usually your astral body is in the zone of quietude."
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Re: [Official] Alcatraz S1 Discussion

Postby Darque on Sat Feb 25, 2012 11:58 pm

DarthLocke wrote:So I was rethinking some concepts regarding FRINGE thinking about different kinds of planes of existence and I came upon some thing in Rosicrucian beliefs --It's very similar to Eastern Philosophy. It all really does associate with dream states, and perhaps some backwards way to use 'sleeper' agents to collect intelligence, just for the sake of thinking about these things, perhaps on the hope of Hauser's ring...



That's a lot to take in..... Interesting... and I can see it relate to the series somewhat. I still wonder about the ring, but it may not be important so much as something Sam did to fill out his character. Dunno. Must think! XD

The dream angle has been intriguing me too..... especially since in this last episode Hauser brought up how Lucy is dreaming. Toss in ME Nikki wearing Sandman T-shirts.... Sylvane no longer dreaming after jumping. I'm not sure how it fits in to the bigger picture yet, but it can't be coincidence! Can it? XD

Some people are wondering if Lucy is astral projecting into the past via dreams. A twist on Inception.

I wonder if the 1960 flashbacks we have been seeing are someone's memories more than dreams....
Maybe the visitant's stolen memories from behind the BHD?

However, this from Steven Lilien's Twitter..
"Dreams are the key to all RT "
http://twitter.com/#!/StevenLilien/stat ... 5913375744

Now is he being metaphorical and speaking of life in general or relating it to Alcatraz specifically?

I lean to maybe less specific because of Lilien saying via Twitter that he had a dream a few years ago and spun it into the concept for Alcatraz the TV show.
http://twitter.com/#!/StevenLilien/stat ... 4005358592

But this tweet makes me think he is being specific and hinting at a key to the larger picture:
"Jack Sylvane, "I don't dream." Very interesting... ;) #alcatraz"
http://twitter.com/#!/StevenLilien/stat ... 8179693568
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Re: [Official] Alcatraz S1 Discussion

Postby DarthLocke on Sun Feb 26, 2012 1:24 pm

Darque wrote:
DarthLocke wrote:So I was rethinking some concepts regarding FRINGE thinking about different kinds of planes of existence and I came upon some thing in Rosicrucian beliefs --It's very similar to Eastern Philosophy. It all really does associate with dream states, and perhaps some backwards way to use 'sleeper' agents to collect intelligence, just for the sake of thinking about these things, perhaps on the hope of Hauser's ring...



That's a lot to take in..... Interesting... and I can see it relate to the series somewhat. I still wonder about the ring, but it may not be important so much as something Sam did to fill out his character. Dunno. Must think! XD

The dream angle has been intriguing me too..... especially since in this last episode Hauser brought up how Lucy is dreaming. Toss in ME Nikki wearing Sandman T-shirts.... Sylvane no longer dreaming after jumping. I'm not sure how it fits in to the bigger picture yet, but it can't be coincidence! Can it? XD

Some people are wondering if Lucy is astral projecting into the past via dreams. A twist on Inception.

I wonder if the 1960 flashbacks we have been seeing are someone's memories more than dreams....
Maybe the visitant's stolen memories from behind the BHD?

However, this from Steven Lilien's Twitter..
"Dreams are the key to all RT "
http://twitter.com/#!/StevenLilien/stat ... 5913375744

Now is he being metaphorical and speaking of life in general or relating it to Alcatraz specifically?

I lean to maybe less specific because of Lilien saying via Twitter that he had a dream a few years ago and spun it into the concept for Alcatraz the TV show.
http://twitter.com/#!/StevenLilien/stat ... 4005358592

But this tweet makes me think he is being specific and hinting at a key to the larger picture:
"Jack Sylvane, "I don't dream." Very interesting... ;) #alcatraz"
http://twitter.com/#!/StevenLilien/stat ... 8179693568


Does "RT" mean reality?
I don't really know a lot about sleep cycles...so I went to read a little bit and came across Circadian Rhythm...and it just seems like something that if one could condition it, might explain the idea of repeating behavior. Something like these criminals were put to "sleep" and they think they're 'dreaming'...If somehow you could bring 'the rhythm to the surface it might explain behavior reenactments or serialization of repeated action.

Some people just don't remember their dreams, but it would be interesting if Jack actually doesn't dream, but it also may suggest he doesn't sleep.--It could also be an indicator that he can't be [further] conditioned. That something is set in stone in his mind.


But maybe Jack just can't remember some things very well. :hmm:
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Re: [Official] Alcatraz S1 Discussion

Postby Thirty-Fiver on Sun Feb 26, 2012 9:03 pm

Darth, RT means "retweet". So Steven's real tweet was "Dreams are the key to all". Everything after the "RT" was something that someone else had tweeted. In other words, it's like quoting someone here at SpoilerTV. If you click on the link you'll see the twitter user lalilien tweeted "Dreaming has been mentioned a lot in tonight's episode of #Alcatraz. What's that about @StevenLilien?" and then Steven tweeted back "Dreams are the key to all".

Hope that made sense. :)
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Re: [Official] Alcatraz S1 Discussion

Postby DarthLocke on Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:10 pm

Thirty-Fiver wrote:Darth, RT means "retweet". So Steven's real tweet was "Dreams are the key to all". Everything after the "RT" was something that someone else had tweeted. In other words, it's like quoting someone here at SpoilerTV. If you click on the link you'll see the twitter user lalilien tweeted "Dreaming has been mentioned a lot in tonight's episode of #Alcatraz. What's that about @StevenLilien?" and then Steven tweeted back "Dreams are the key to all".

Hope that made sense. :)


Thanks! :thumbsup: I have a twitter, but only used it once :blush:
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Re: [Official] Alcatraz S1 Discussion

Postby DarthLocke on Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:53 pm

Just so everyone knows, the Daytona 500 preemted Alcatraz last night, but according to their facebook status, we are getting two brand new episodes next Monday (March 5th) back to back! :)
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Re: [Official] Alcatraz S1 Discussion

Postby JacobsMom on Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:06 am

DarthLocke wrote:Just so everyone knows, the Daytona 500 preemted Alcatraz last night, but according to their facebook status, we are getting two brand new episodes next Monday (March 5th) back to back! :)


Thanks Darth! I was so bummed last night when I turned on the TV to see car racing instead. :mad: I also checked on the FOX web site and yes, we will now have to wait another week for new episodes back to back. Oh well.... :(
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Re: [Official] Alcatraz S1 Discussion

Postby Devil's Arcade on Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:31 am

It is on the internet, and is the best episode of the season, in my opinion. Again, the modern story stuff could have been better, but I loved the flashbacks and any of the modern stuff with the Alcatraz inmate. I felt really bad for him.
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Re: [Official] Alcatraz S1 Discussion

Postby DarthLocke on Wed Feb 29, 2012 2:19 am

Devil's Arcade wrote:It is on the internet, and is the best episode of the season, in my opinion. Again, the modern story stuff could have been better, but I loved the flashbacks and any of the modern stuff with the Alcatraz inmate. I felt really bad for him.


I looked this morning and couldn't find it! :scared: ---Thanks for the heads up! :thumbsup:
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Re: [Official] Alcatraz S1 Discussion

Postby DarthLocke on Wed Feb 29, 2012 2:53 pm

Ok it appears things have changed... So now it seems that 1x09 and 1x10 will still be back to back next Monday as originally scheduled, and that 1x08 will air the following Monday. :roll:

I am going to see if I can find 1x08 online and watch it first, especially after Devil's Arcade's recommendation!
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Re: [Official] Alcatraz S1 Discussion

Postby Joshua on Wed Feb 29, 2012 10:12 pm

It was decent. I hope we get some indication as to how the inmates can function/get jobs/have money to buy things in the present day considering it was 50 years ago for them only yesterday.



--- Don't read on if you haven't seen it yet ---




Interesting revelation that they're putting something into the blood and then putting it back into the inmates. So it looks like they are going for a sciency explanation as opposed to something supernatural.

And Emmett seemed to accept Clarence not having aged a little too easily... I wonder if we will see more of him.

This episode made me hungry :P
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